Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:29 pm  

Superted wrote:

How many players who've got tainted reputations ever take responsibility for their actions and come out and say things like 'I've been an idiot, I've acted irresposibily, I've acted immaturely and been a bit selfish, I've let fame and fortune go to my head and got carried away, I've made some bad decisions'

How many come out with 'I was in a dark place? I didn't want to leave my house (though they manage to get out to the pub), I was lonely and felt I had no where to turn, I was doing it tough, I've suffered with depression'....

The 2nd set of responses are much more common, much easier to throw out there, and bring a much more sympathetic and accepting response - almost wipes the slate clean for misbehaviour immediately.

No doubt the do-gooders will claim me saying this is 'adding stigma', but that's BS. People with genuine mental health issues should be given all the help and respect in the world. I've seen first hand the trauma caused and have nothing but heart felt well wishes for anyone suffering.

But on the flip side, I can't help but feel A-holes who act like a goose on numerous occasions over a sustained period of time, who then suddenly find the 'courage' to speak about their depression when they need some positive press deserve the cynicism they get.

It isn't 'do-gooders' who will claim this is you adding stigma, its anyone with half an ounce of sense and the ability to read your post.

If a player claimed to have broken a leg would you decide that they hadnt? if they claimed to have torn a hamstring would you claim they do that for sympathy? If they had a fractured jaw would you suppose the possibility that was just an excuse?

Firstly, you arent a qualified mental health professional, secondly you have no first hand knowledge of this specific case, literally the only point of your post is to stigmatise Hardaker for admitting his problems. To paint him as possibly cynically manipulating sympathy for mental health problems to cover his 'being an a hole'

If you honestly can't see how people who are struggling with their mental health, who have maybe self-medicated, taken undue risks, made poor decisions, locked themselves away, avoided things (all pretty much textbook manifestations of mental health issues) would maybe keep quite about them lest people think they were making it up for sympathy then i have sympathy for you and those around you.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:20 pm  

I purposely didn't mention Hardaker or anyone else for that matter in my post, because you're right, I'm not close enough to the detail.

How many players have you seen come out after being found acting like an a-hole and talk about a broken leg, torn hamstring, broken jaw etc etc

Whilst up on your high horse, you might not see what's happening down on the ground, in the real world. Unfortunately, some people cynically use depression to excuse poor behaviour.

I'm well aware, poor choices/behaviour can be one of the ways depression manifests itself, but it's no coincidence how often it's trotted out by the 'bad lads' nowadays, usually just when they need some good press - like when looking for a new club or contract usually....

As a sport I think we're very pro-active in supporting players with any issues - some will take advantage of that. That's my opinion, based on life experience of people genuinely suffering, and blaggers alike.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:05 pm  

Superted wrote:

I purposely didn't mention Hardaker or anyone else for that matter in my post, because you're right, I'm not close enough to the detail.

Are we pretending context doesnt exist? What relevance does your post have other than to highlight the possibility that he, like others, could be faking it?

How many players have you seen come out after being found acting like an a-hole and talk about a broken leg, torn hamstring, broken jaw etc etc

So you understand you are treating mental health differently to other illnesses.

Whilst up on your high horse, you might not see what's happening down on the ground, in the real world. Unfortunately, some people cynically use depression to excuse poor behaviour.

Some people fake cancer and other illnesses...

I'm well aware, poor choices/behaviour can be one of the ways depression manifests itself, but it's no coincidence how often it's trotted out by the 'bad lads' nowadays, usually just when they need some good press - like when looking for a new club or contract usually....

As a sport I think we're very pro-active in supporting players with any issues - some will take advantage of that. That's my opinion, based on life experience of people genuinely suffering, and blaggers alike.

We are so proactive about mental health issues that 6 years ago one of our biggest names killed themselves,
we are so proactive about it that one of SL's most successful players nearly fell out of the game because of depression and mental health struggles not more than a year ago,
we are so pro-active about it that our current Man of Steel was left struggling for weeks because of it and a previous man of steel has barely played in over a year because of it.
We are so pro-active about it that one of the greatest centres of his generation spent a year in the bush because of it,
we are so pro-active about it that one of the best players in the game isnt playing right now because of it.

Yeah, we are doing wonderfully.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:44 pm  

To be fair I don't think any sport manages it well at all in part because its just very hard to assist someone who is suffering mental health issues.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:29 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

To be fair I don't think any sport manages it well at all in part because its just very hard to assist someone who is suffering mental health issues.

Yep. I think we're very poor as a sport in this regard, but then I don't know of a sport that's particularly any better. In society as a whole we're still rubbish in terms of mental health issues in my opinion.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:34 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Superted wrote:

I purposely didn't mention Hardaker or anyone else for that matter in my post, because you're right, I'm not close enough to the detail.

Are we pretending context doesnt exist? What relevance does your post have other than to highlight the possibility that he, like others, could be faking it?

How many players have you seen come out after being found acting like an a-hole and talk about a broken leg, torn hamstring, broken jaw etc etc

So you understand you are treating mental health differently to other illnesses.

Whilst up on your high horse, you might not see what's happening down on the ground, in the real world. Unfortunately, some people cynically use depression to excuse poor behaviour.

Some people fake cancer and other illnesses...

I'm well aware, poor choices/behaviour can be one of the ways depression manifests itself, but it's no coincidence how often it's trotted out by the 'bad lads' nowadays, usually just when they need some good press - like when looking for a new club or contract usually....

As a sport I think we're very pro-active in supporting players with any issues - some will take advantage of that. That's my opinion, based on life experience of people genuinely suffering, and blaggers alike.

We are so proactive about mental health issues that 6 years ago one of our biggest names killed themselves,
we are so proactive about it that one of SL's most successful players nearly fell out of the game because of depression and mental health struggles not more than a year ago,
we are so pro-active about it that our current Man of Steel was left struggling for weeks because of it and a previous man of steel has barely played in over a year because of it.
We are so pro-active about it that one of the greatest centres of his generation spent a year in the bush because of it,
we are so pro-active about it that one of the best players in the game isnt playing right now because of it.

Yeah, we are doing wonderfully.

Of the players you're referring to above;

1 - A serial offender with a questionable lifestyle choices and a serious drug addiction
2 - A serial offender with questionable lifestyle choices, drink and recreational drug habits, was a bully as a kid and never grew up out of that mentality - fame and fortune only made him worse
3 - A serial offender with questionable lifestyle choices, drink and drug habits who's had some personal issues
4 - A good 'country' boy, who didn't settle in the bright lights of the city
5 - A bloke who's mixed up in all sorts of bad news, mainly centred around his choice of associates who are heavily linked to drugs, gambling and crime

Now any one or all of these could be suffering from any range of mental health issues and in a couple of cases, I'm sure that is the case, but equally, they could also simply be grade A geese.

People will come out and say maybe drink, drugs, serial offending are all symptoms of a mental health issue, and maybe they are.... Forgive me for being cynical when they only bring this to the table when they're needing the positive press.

The rugby team I'm involved in has blokes with very similar lifestyles as some of the above, are they suffering from mental health issues - no... They're just d!cks, but bet your bottom dollar, if they were in the public eye and getting grief for their behaviour, they'd be happy to trot it out as a 'please forgive me, I'm a battler doing my best' piece.

Having personal issues, misbehaving, losing your job etc etc doesn't mean you've got depression. Going through a tough time, and handling it he wrong way isn't a clinical illness.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:43 am  

As someone whos suffered mental health issues for over 20 years, i could be very cynical about someome leading a chequered life and stating they're having problems. But the reality is that it doesn't discriminate much in the same way that physical illnesses don't, but even though a small minority lie about cancers etc too (even those that live a less than desirable lifestyle) your first response wouldn't be to question whether they're telling the truth would it?! So don't do it with mental illness either!

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:28 am  

I think that people need to realise the mental health covers far more than depression. Zak has been through the mill, most of it self inflicted, but that shows that he has a problem with his lifestyle decision making process and that in turn has lead him into a very dark place. Does he have depression - who knows but he definitely needs help from professionals to get him back on track and that means he has a mental health problem. Like Stevie Ward I admire both players for their obvious talent but more so for their bravery in coming out with their problems. Zak made a very salient point. He left because people openly criticised/hated him which I have no doubt compounded his problems. Reading some of the posts on here I can fully understand the issues he has faced and people need to try and understand the issues and stop the toxic old fashioned attitudes on mental health issues that have surfaced on here. I am sure we would be better off with a healthy Zak than putting in a make shift full back who doesn't have the same skill set that Zak has shown previously.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:22 pm  

Superted wrote:

Of the players you're referring to above;

1 - A serial offender with a questionable lifestyle choices and a serious drug addiction
2 - A serial offender with questionable lifestyle choices, drink and recreational drug habits, was a bully as a kid and never grew up out of that mentality - fame and fortune only made him worse
3 - A serial offender with questionable lifestyle choices, drink and drug habits who's had some personal issues
4 - A good 'country' boy, who didn't settle in the bright lights of the city
5 - A bloke who's mixed up in all sorts of bad news, mainly centred around his choice of associates who are heavily linked to drugs, gambling and crime

Now any one or all of these could be suffering from any range of mental health issues and in a couple of cases, I'm sure that is the case, but equally, they could also simply be grade A geese.

People will come out and say maybe drink, drugs, serial offending are all symptoms of a mental health issue, and maybe they are.... Forgive me for being cynical when they only bring this to the table when they're needing the positive press.

The people who 'will come out and say drink, drugs, serial offending are all symptoms of a mental health issue' are called doctors and mental health professionals. And no i wont forgive you for being cynical about assuming people are using their illness as an excuse because it is a damaging assumption and the complete opposite of reality a recent study of men who had attempted suicide concluded "Almost all men reported that their masculine beliefs led to them isolating themselves when they were feeling down, to avoid imposing on others… and instead, relied on coping strategies that required less immediate effort and provided short-term alleviation of problems, for example, drug or alcohol use, gambling and working excessively, some men reported that adherence to masculine norms meant that feelings associated with being vulnerable provoke greater anxiety than the thought of being dead."

Men arent using having mental health issues as an excuse, they dont hide behind it because it is easy. They are literally killing themselves to avoid admitting they may need help.

The rugby team I'm involved in has blokes with very similar lifestyles as some of the above, are they suffering from mental health issues - no... They're just d!cks, but bet your bottom dollar, if they were in the public eye and getting grief for their behaviour, they'd be happy to trot it out as a 'please forgive me, I'm a battler doing my best' piece.

You have no idea whether or not these blokes have mental health issues, your certainly not the type of person they would talk to about it. Which is exactly the problem, huge amounts of men like similar lifestyles, self medicating with drugs, indulging risky behaviour, losing their jobs, and just being seen as d1cks, you dont see everything else, you dont see their struggles and problems, the dark thoughts, the fear and anxiety. They wont tell you, and you wont notice, thats why the biggest killer of young men is suicide.

Having personal issues, misbehaving, losing your job etc etc doesn't mean you've got depression. Going through a tough time, and handling it he wrong way isn't a clinical illness.

Nobody has said it does, and nobody has said it is.

Re: Hardaker opens up about his demons : Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:23 am  

I am a qualified mental health practitioner, if there are any specific aspects people are unsure of I can try and help.

I actually think rugby league does a lot more than pretty much all other sports in trying to break down mental health and male mental health stigmas in particular.