Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:59 am  

I don't think having a reserve team would be that beneficial. It would keep youngsters playing at a lower level for longer, and it would reduce the player pool of professional players available to championship clubs.
Most of the players playing in the competition will be academy players anyway, so assuming they'd be playing in both competition's that would mean you have a lot of players playing a couple of games a week, either that or you have another roster of players entirely, meaning you'd need around 51 players at the club as a whole. It just doesn't seem like value for money to me.
I think the best solution would to lift the age limit on the academy to 20 or 21, and allowing a couple of overage player spots that can be filled with players returning from injury.
The step up from academy is huge, but the best ones will always make it, and the players lack of all round skill will get exposed. The best recent example I can think of is Ryan Hampshire. At 16 to 19 he was being touted as a once in a generation player, even some Aussie clubs were interested in him, but blinding speed can only get you so far, especially in the pivotal positions.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:05 am  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

I don't think having a reserve team would be that beneficial. It would keep youngsters playing at a lower level for longer, and it would reduce the player pool of professional players available to championship clubs.
Most of the players playing in the competition will be academy players anyway, so assuming they'd be playing in both competition's that would mean you have a lot of players playing a couple of games a week, either that or you have another roster of players entirely, meaning you'd need around 51 players at the club as a whole. It just doesn't seem like value for money to me.
I think the best solution would to lift the age limit on the academy to 20 or 21, and allowing a couple of overage player spots that can be filled with players returning from injury.
The step up from academy is huge, but the best ones will always make it, and the players lack of all round skill will get exposed. The best recent example I can think of is Ryan Hampshire. At 16 to 19 he was being touted as a once in a generation player, even some Aussie clubs were interested in him, but blinding speed can only get you so far, especially in the pivotal positions.

I think your wrong on the reserves, and most in the game think the same way, people with a vested interest in players and game.

That said, I actually agree on your second point, and something I have often said. For me, the best solution is an under 16's and an under 21's. If they are not making it by 21, then to be frank, there not going to in the system they are in and should move on anyway.

Your also to be fair a bit off on Hamshire. His problem is not that he is not the player he was, it's that the modern game coaches, especially English ones, have very weird thinking with regards players and positions, and seem to always want to redesign the wheel. Hampshire may or may not have made it in his best position, but without the chance and time to show it, it is hard to put entirely at his door, and assume other players will be the same.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:40 am  

Gotcha wrote:

I think your wrong on the reserves, and most in the game think the same way, people with a vested interest in players and game.

That said, I actually agree on your second point, and something I have often said. For me, the best solution is an under 16's and an under 21's. If they are not making it by 21, then to be frank, there not going to in the system they are in and should move on anyway.

Your also to be fair a bit off on Hamshire. His problem is not that he is not the player he was, it's that the modern game coaches, especially English ones, have very weird thinking with regards players and positions, and seem to always want to redesign the wheel. Hampshire may or may not have made it in his best position, but without the chance and time to show it, it is hard to put entirely at his door, and assume other players will be the same.

i partially agree scrap under 16's make academy under 18's and then under 21's and maybe allow 3 overage players, the players that are pushing 21 or just over but aren't quite first team regulars can be dual reg, but realistically that would maybe be around 4-5 players max that would give the players stepping up to under 21's a more gradual step up in class and mainly then playing against full grown men more, the better players can then use dual reg as another stepping stone before they can be tested in super league. it also by having those 4-5 players over 21 who may be late developer's specially forwards another year or two to develope. think that would cover all bases. there will always be those that slip the net, and those that promise much but just cant step up.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:05 am  

I used to like going to see the A team and years ago they would get regular crowds of 3000 or so which provided extra income for the club. Members got in free but spent over the bar etc and non members paid. For senior players returning from injury or out of form it was an acceptable way of proving fitness and a great way for youngsters to play alongside 1st teamers in club colours.

I would favour a compulsory return of A teams which together with an increase in funding would allow SL clubs to run larger squads which are now necessary IMO because of constant injuries in the modern game. It would also allow youngsters longer to develop more at their home club and with team mates.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:58 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

I used to like going to see the A team and years ago they would get regular crowds of 3000 or so which provided extra income for the club. Members got in free but spent over the bar etc and non members paid. For senior players returning from injury or out of form it was an acceptable way of proving fitness and a great way for youngsters to play alongside 1st teamers in club colours.

I would favour a compulsory return of A teams which together with an increase in funding would allow SL clubs to run larger squads which are now necessary IMO because of constant injuries in the modern game. It would also allow youngsters longer to develop more at their home club and with team mates.

used to go watch Cas reserves a fair bit(more local )and yes 2k plus crowds against Leeds were common and close to that most weeks again members were free and addition like £5.
the is and Rightly so nostalgia and fell good factor about the old A team league, alas the game has moved on but as most agree under 19 and dual reg is not filling that gap, and a tweek or two are required but i dont think we should wholesale go back to forced A teams.

i know people dig at Phil Clarke but he's take on the A team was spot on, he talked about how some players were good A team players but apart from the odd first team game were 5-6 years A team pro's and how he learned so much from his 2-3 years before being a regular first team player.

i also think the old A team was deceptive, i never would have thought JJb would have stepped up to super league watching him in the A team, on the other side Jason Netherton used to rip it up at that level but looked out of his depth at first team. Chris feather another one (but that's a slightly different story)

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:50 am  

rollin thunder wrote:

i also think the old A team was deceptive, i never would have thought JJb would have stepped up to super league watching him in the A team, on the other side Jason Netherton used to rip it up at that level but looked out of his depth at first team. Chris feather another one (but that's a slightly different story)

You mean Under 21's?

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:11 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

You mean Under 21's?

A team Under 21's was pretty much the same for the last few years.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:13 pm  

I completely disagree - this is a sport that lacks depth of talent and finance.

Running a reserve grade seems prohibitively expensive just in case you can catch a player who doesn't look great at 19 but might at 21 - realistically how many players might that encompass?

Modern conditioning techniques mean most full time players don't need reserve grade rugby to get their fitness back - much better they go out on dual reg for that.

Dual reg. bridges the gap in terms of quality and physicality and doesn't need to incur additional costs.

How many teams do you need under the first team: A Team, U19, U17,U16 that's a lot of players to mange and coach.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:31 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I completely disagree - this is a sport that lacks depth of talent and finance.

Running a reserve grade seems prohibitively expensive just in case you can catch a player who doesn't look great at 19 but might at 21 - realistically how many players might that encompass?

Modern conditioning techniques mean most full time players don't need reserve grade rugby to get their fitness back - much better they go out on dual reg for that.

Dual reg. bridges the gap in terms of quality and physicality and doesn't need to incur additional costs.

How many teams do you need under the first team: A Team, U19, U17,U16 that's a lot of players to mange and coach.

i think most people ase not saying we should bring an A team back, just more the under 19's should be more under 21's so you would not need another team just keep hold of some of the players that extra year or 2, which would mean some of the late bloomers are still in the system its not like these players are going back to amateur clubs and may get re discovered they are simply leaving the game.
personnaly i think districk sides and barla should cover everthing up to under 17 with the local pro clubs over seeing this level. under 21's under 18/19 plus some dual reg should then be enough

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:31 pm  

At one point I think it was Wigan , Saints, Wire, Hull n maybe one other who said they were interested in a reserve team league...not sure how many have pulled out...I agree as Printer The said earlier if you only have a few teams participating then the exercise is pointless.
For me the concept of a return of the reserve or A team would not only be beneficial to an individual club but for the future prospects of England team, that is why the RFL needs to get their act together n make a reserve structure compulsory, as I said I know GH would not vote on this but hopefully the other clubs would.
I disagree with scrapping the U16s 2014, 2015 Leeds Rhinos dominated U16 competition losing out only to France U16s think in 2015...2016 seemed as if there were less matches but then was focusing more on senior squad...This season seems U16s are once again returning to been a formidable squad playing an exciting brand of rugby. ( Not sure if Rob Burrow still has any influence in there but he was brilliant coach..you could see his influence on certain players...looking back Judah Mazive who since going to Trinity has lost his flair does not seem to pick up games...the other Harvey Whiteley.

I would then keep U19s or call it U21s. ...at least then it keeps a few players who have got over age grade within the fold.

Going onto DR or Loan, a club can only send out a certain quota of players that leaves others without games..they might be an unknown quantity or take a bit longer to flourish..or change of coach....Paul McShane or Thomas Minns ( not sure if he injured but was scoring tries regularly for HKR which is what he was doing when with us). Thinking of other players we lost who did well in U19s Jack wray gone to Hull FC could not see point in that Ryan Jones to Wire thought he had lot of potential tall powerful winger only got one opportunity in senior squad which was hardly enough to judge him on...Joe Sanderson who is now doing well at Hunslet Hawkes

I would like to keep the two academy levels + a reserve team . By the way even GH said in a YEP interview that with the increase of fixtures it would be necessary to have a large squad...but even with the additions he made this season, owing to injuries it has not given us great strength in depth..forcing Mac to play players out of position ( exception Joel Moon that one most definitely works ,pleasing to know that Mac has now said he will not break that up). So for me a reserve team would assist this...not just for those who have gone above age grade n need game time but for those returning from injury or need a kick up the backside..before they get proverbial boot. I know it was for one game n Brett would probably do as he is told...but a senior player who is part of a multiple trophy winning side sent to championship side to get match fit...got to be demoralising. ..a reserve squad your still wearing the rhinos jersey able to keep the pride work with the same ethos ..or take Achurch, yeah I know many would say ..rather not thank you...but forgetting that for large parts he was injured..then on loan..wasn't until last matches that he actually showed what he was capable of putting in performance better than some of favs...not saying it would have changed things for cert but if reserve team had existed we might have got more out of him. ..
I would also look at it this way...in order to avoid a situation where GH has to send e-mail to fans or behind closed doors throws a hair drier at squad...I would not only send players down to reserve team if their form dipped for considerable period but decrease the wage to match the squad they are in....if they truly want their senior place then they fight it..conversely if a player in reserve team is showing enough promise to gain promotion ..then not only does he go up but increase his wage...as said earlier the more intense the pressure /competition for place ..the better each player will become n the squad as a whole..well in theory...This for me as said if all SL teams did it could have a positive effect for England. I know JP strongly advocates a reserve structure so I hope he uses his new influence as player manager for England to push it forward.