: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:38 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

So you wouldn't like a another Lewis Jones at Leeds.

I'd have another Boston or Offiah at Wigan.

When was the last top class outside back produced in this country?

13 years of Supeleague and how many?

The answer to the above is yes, but given the money now on offer in Union those types of players won't give RL a second glance.
So we have to develop our own players and accept (sadly) that some may be poached or will have a crack at RU for the money and the exposure international RU offers.
It was interesting to see both Lote Tuqiri and Tamana Tahu playing for the Waratahs (NSW) in the Super 14 on Saturday.
Re outside backs, as long as clubs continue to import so many Aussies etc that will be a problem.
The Chuckle Bros on Friday were creaming themselves at the prospect of Lyon going back to Saints to combine with Gidley in 2010, what will that do to the much vaunted kids coming through there?

: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:49 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

So you wouldn't like a another Lewis Jones at Leeds.

I'd have another Boston or Offiah at Wigan.

When was the last top class outside back produced in this country?

13 years of Supeleague and how many?

You are absolutely right, we should buy up anyone who shows a bit of promise in the other code and bankrupt some clubs as a result.....

You do realise that without the clubs there is no game don't you?

The correct thing to do is rather than throw £250k per club per year (for those that could even afford it) at a RU international, put that money into youth development and do that properly, unlike most clubs (Bradford and Wigan included) do at the moment. That kind of money on an annual basis would make a real difference to the junior production line.

For info, the junior set up is about producing SL quality players not lifting trophies.

: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:17 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

So you wouldn't like a another Lewis Jones at Leeds.

I'd have another Boston or Offiah at Wigan.

When was the last top class outside back produced in this country?

13 years of Supeleague and how many?

Is that WITHOUT breaking the SALARY CAP again

: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:00 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I'd have another Offiah at Wigan.

Get your cheque book out and visit Widnes.

: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:20 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

You are absolutely right, we should buy up anyone who shows a bit of promise in the other code and bankrupt some clubs as a result.....

You do realise that without the clubs there is no game don't you?

The correct thing to do is rather than throw £250k per club per year (for those that could even afford it) at a RU international, put that money into youth development and do that properly, unlike most clubs (Bradford and Wigan included) do at the moment. That kind of money on an annual basis would make a real difference to the junior production line.

For info, the junior set up is about producing SL quality players not lifting trophies.

Then answer me this.

When did we (any club) last produce a top class outside back. Wigan produce more players for Superleague than anyone else, but they are not top quality International players.

Do you think that Gardner, Calderwood and Smith compare with Offiah, Boston etc?
Do you think that Senior or Gleeson compare with Davies, Devereaux, Bateman, Innes, or Lewis Jones.

13 years of Superleague and how many quality backs has it produced?

The 1995 Wales backline.
Harris
Devereaux
Gibbs
Bateman
Sullivan,
Davies,
Ellis.

Stronger in every position than the English World Cup backline.

: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:45 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

So you wouldn't like a another Lewis Jones at Leeds.

I'd have another Boston or Offiah at Wigan.

When was the last top class outside back produced in this country?

13 years of Supeleague and how many?

I'll be happy enough with another David Ward, John Holmes or Mick Shoetbottom.

In fact, I am happy enough with Lee Smith, Danny McGuire, Rob Burrow, Ryan Bailey, Matt Diskin, Jamie Jones Buchanan, Kevin Sinfield all of whom have eclipsed Lewis Jones in terms of domestic achievements.

Perhaps if your club could produce some players of a similar ilk the above might be tested a bit more and there might be more competition for spots in the national team.

As it is the players from Leeds and Sts are pretty much a shoe-in because clubs like yours are, frankly, a joke when it comes to showing some commitment to developing junior players.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:33 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Then answer me this.

When did we (any club) last produce a top class outside back. Wigan produce more players for Superleague than anyone else, but they are not top quality International players.

Do you think that Gardner, Calderwood and Smith compare with Offiah, Boston etc?
Do you think that Senior or Gleeson compare with Davies, Devereaux, Bateman, Innes, or Lewis Jones.

13 years of Superleague and how many quality backs has it produced?

The 1995 Wales backline.
Harris
Devereaux
Gibbs
Bateman
Sullivan,
Davies,
Ellis.

Stronger in every position than the English World Cup backline.

And if you buy in talent form the other code, how many top quality backs would Super League have produced? Still none. You are correct in identifying the problem, but what Noble is proposing is not going to address it, let alone solve it. If anything, it stands a small chance of making it worse.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:12 am  

G1 wrote:

I'll be happy enough with another David Ward, John Holmes or Mick Shoetbottom.

In fact, I am happy enough with Lee Smith, Danny McGuire, Rob Burrow, Ryan Bailey, Matt Diskin, Jamie Jones Buchanan, Kevin Sinfield all of whom have eclipsed Lewis Jones in terms of domestic achievements.

Perhaps if your club could produce some players of a similar ilk the above might be tested a bit more and there might be more competition for spots in the national team.

As it is the players from Leeds and Sts are pretty much a shoe-in because clubs like yours are, frankly, a joke when it comes to showing some commitment to developing junior players.

And therin lies the problem.

They are all decent club players.

But they are not top level as was clearly shown October / November last year.

Let's look at this backline

Lydon
Gill
Schofield
Newlove
Robinson
Edwards
Gregory.

All pre Super league, and all better than what was sent to the World Cup.

Then add these
Tait
Offiah
Bateman
Gibbs
Bentley
Davies
Ellis

All signed from Rugby Union and all better than what we sent to the World Cup.

[Bullseye]

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:19 am  

It's all academic. Most RL clubs wouldn't have the cash to be able to tempt top class union players anyway. The days when we could get the best Welsh players are long gone. It's not the 80s anymore.

There's no doubt we're producing less flair players but that's probably more to do with our own systems in RL than any lack of recruits from union.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:27 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

And therin lies the problem.

They are all decent club players.

But they are not top level as was clearly shown October / November last year.

Let's look at this backline

Lydon
Gill
Schofield
Newlove
Robinson
Edwards
Gregory.

All pre Super league, and all better than what was sent to the World Cup.

Then add these
Tait
Offiah
Bateman
Gibbs
Bentley
Davies
Ellis

All signed from Rugby Union and all better than what we sent to the World Cup.

The modern era players I mentioned have all equaled or exceed the international achievements of every one of those players you have mentioned.

Not one of those players you mentioned won a world cup or a series against Australia. They won a series against NZ. just the same as the modern era players.