Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 am  

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, I mean if were using stats to prove a point we have one of if not the best Winger in Superleague, not the worst, right?

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:08 am  

christopher wrote:

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, I mean if were using stats to prove a point we have one of if not the best Winger in Superleague, not the worst, right?

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:23 am  

christopher wrote:

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, I mean if were using stats to prove a point we have one of if not the best Winger in Superleague, not the worst, right?

You are right fella, I'm simply pointing out that the margins this season between success (getting top 5 for us given where we were) and failure (relegation fight yet again) were slim and had we had a stronger squad and agar from the start we could have amassed those few extra points to tip the scales. So let's get behind Agar, a guy who has done nothing wrong at Leeds and support him.

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:27 am  

christopher wrote:

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, I mean if were using stats to prove a point we have one of if not the best Winger in Superleague, not the worst, right?

Facts can't be though. And the stat used was simply the one in truth to what people are using incorrectly. You can't say his win record is X, when it is not, and then use that X as a barometer of his record without taking into account the true comparison. Sure stats can be interpreted differently and spun, but what is right in front of your eyes shouldn't be ignored.

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:43 am  

Gotcha wrote:

Facts can't be though. And the stat used was simply the one in truth to what people are using incorrectly. You can't say his win record is X, when it is not, and then use that X as a barometer of his record without taking into account the true comparison. Sure stats can be interpreted differently and spun, but what is right in front of your eyes shouldn't be ignored.

But you weren't using a correct stat either, you said if we lose his win rate will be... well we haven't played that game yet, the fact is in SL Agar's win rate is 50%

Is that good enough - no it isn't, but then evening out the 'easier' fixtures you mention, you have to factor in he took over the team when it was in a mess and it was never going to be a quick fix.

ATEOD the only facts that matter at this stage is we are in SL and he will live or die by the results next season - this years stats will mean nothing when the season starts in February.

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:51 am  

As a wise man once said "People can come up with statistics to prove anything, 40% of people know that".

Surely the only thing we can all agree on is that i) a 50% (at best) win ratio for the second part of the season, and ii) that if we had won the close games we could be top 5, is a damning indictment of the quality of rugby both at Headingley and across SL?

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:06 am  

He's got the gig now so let's see how much progress is made from the start of next season

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:49 am  

HRS Rhino wrote:

Surely the only thing we can all agree on is that i) a 50% (at best) win ratio for the second part of the season, and ii) that if we had won the close games we could be top 5, is a damning indictment of the quality of rugby both at Headingley and across SL?

Sure can. Which is why anything less than a play off spot or a close shave with it should be considered as a failure next season.

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:27 am  

Joshheff90 wrote:

Regarding gotchas comment. If the club came out and said next season is a year to develop youngsters (assuming no relegation) with lots academy players getting worth while game time. I too could buy into that. It’s when they say we’re in transition but then fill the squad with mediocracy and journeymen

It is a transition. But you’ve still to avoid relegation so clubs toward the bottom end quite understandably go safe and bring in journeymen/average Aussies etc.

It’s why relegation is such a destabilising factor for the sport. This season 50% of the sports fully professional clubs can’t plan properly for next season or any of the seasons after it because they don’t know if they’ll be in a professional league or not.

Re: NEW COACH | Richard Agar - Rolling Contract : Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:15 pm  

Anyone guess which coach had a 61% win ratio with Leeds, and is now enjoying a 93% win ration? Anyone?

Sorry but quoting win percentages everywhere is a fundamentally flawed argument.

It is one indicator.

Brian Mac had a 37% win percentage at London before joining Leeds, and we all know what happened then.

How does the coach relate to media and sponsors? How do they relate to the key leaders in the team? What style of rugby do they promote? Do they give youth a chance, and give them the protection and support they need? Are they honourable and in line with organisational values? Technical v emotional?

So many components make up a good coach, and unless you had different coaches operating at the same time with exactly the same players and fixtures, it's extremely difficult to compare.

Coaches are also human and change/develop over time, it's not even a fixed quantity.

There are a million different factors which support organisational success/winning trophies, it's far more complex than previous win ratios over timescales which suit one point of view.