: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:14 pm  

Tony Ferrino wrote:

Not going to go into it over the board buddy.

Probably shouldn't have brought it up at all then should you?

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:18 pm  

G1 wrote:

Whilst I don't disagree with what people are saying about McGuire's organisational abilities he's actually far better than people realise. Nobody appears to have mentioned that he created 2 of our tries on Friday.

Is he better than Leon? I don't know. He certainly was a million miles ahead of him last October.

and in the world cup semi where he was outstanding

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:25 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

and in the world cup semi where he was outstanding

he was the best england player on the pitch that day IMO (not that thats saying much!)

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:08 pm  

django wrote:

For my own interest I compiled the following before the season started. It's the Top 10 list (from the summer era) of Leeds try scorers per appearance. With the exception of a few who only played a couple of times, Mcguire finishes well on top.


Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
Danny McGuire--------135---------166----------0.813253012
Marcus Bai--------------42----------57-----------0.736842105
Brent Webb------------37----------52------------0.711538462
Mark Calderwood------88----------126----------0.698412698
Tonie Carroll-----------30----------44------------0.681818182
Kallum Watkins--------2------------3-------------0.666666667
Scott Donald-----------54----------86------------0.627906977
Kevin Iro---------------9-----------16------------0.5625

I would agree with your conclusion in regards to McGuire but I think the table looks more like this

As Above: (I presume) Leeds SL Regular Rounds Only

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
1 - Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
2 - Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
3 - Danny McGuire--------125---------151----------0.8278
4 - Marcus Bai--------------39----------52-----------0.75
5 - Brent Webb------------34----------47------------0.7234
6 - Tonie Carroll-----------30----------42------------0.7143
7 - Mark Calderwood------84----------118----------0.7119
8 - Scott Donald-----------53----------79------------0.6709
9 - Kallum Watkins--------2------------3-------------0.6667
10 - Kevin Iro---------------9-----------16------------0.5625

If you widen it out to include All Competitive Leeds Fixtures in the SL Era:

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
1 - Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
2 - Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
3 - Danny McGuire--------150---------187----------0.8021
4 - Mark Calderwood------106----------143----------0.7413
5 - Brent Webb------------40----------55------------0.7273
6 - Marcus Bai--------------45----------63-----------0.7143
7 - Scott Donald-----------69----------97------------0.7113
8 - Danny Williams--------12-----------18------------0.6667
9 - Tonie Carroll-----------31----------50------------0.6200
10 - Kallum Watkins--------3------------5-------------0.6000

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:28 pm  

tvoc wrote:

I would agree with your conclusion in regards to McGuire but I think the table looks more like this

As Above: (I presume) Leeds SL Regular Rounds Only

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
1 - Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
2 - Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
3 - Danny McGuire--------125---------151----------0.8278
4 - Marcus Bai--------------39----------52-----------0.75
5 - Brent Webb------------34----------47------------0.7234
6 - Tonie Carroll-----------30----------42------------0.7143
7 - Mark Calderwood------84----------118----------0.7119
8 - Scott Donald-----------53----------79------------0.6709
9 - Kallum Watkins--------2------------3-------------0.6667
10 - Kevin Iro---------------9-----------16------------0.5625

If you widen it out to include All Competitive Leeds Fixtures in the SL Era:

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
1 - Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
2 - Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
3 - Danny McGuire--------150---------187----------0.8021
4 - Mark Calderwood------106----------143----------0.7413
5 - Brent Webb------------40----------55------------0.7273
6 - Marcus Bai--------------45----------63-----------0.7143
7 - Scott Donald-----------69----------97------------0.7113
8 - Danny Williams--------12-----------18------------0.6667
9 - Tonie Carroll-----------31----------50------------0.6200
10 - Kallum Watkins--------3------------5-------------0.6000

Interesting. This figures I used came from the Gillette Year Book. I'll check them tonight to ensure i didn't enter the wrong figure into excel.


Either way, I didn't expect McGuire to be above all of our wingers.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:50 pm  

django wrote:

Interesting. This figures I used came from the Gillette Year Book. I'll check them tonight to ensure i didn't enter the wrong figure into excel.

The first principal of record keeping is to disagree with everyone else's records.

I don't use books or programmes to double check any of my stats but if called on I can list every game that McGuire has played and list every point that he has scored (for Leeds) and the same would apply to any other Leeds player during the SL Era.

django wrote:

Either way, I didn't expect McGuire to be above all of our wingers.

I did but there again it's an exercise I do most seasons and bar the anomalies McGuire is consistently out in front.

: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:00 pm  

tvoc wrote:

The first principal of record keeping is to disagree with everyone else's records.

I don't use books or programmes to double check any of my stats but if called on I can list every game that McGuire has played and list every point that he has scored (for Leeds) and the same would apply to any other Leeds player during the SL Era.



I did but there again it's an exercise I do most seasons and bar the anomalies McGuire is consistently out in front.

Thats fair enough! Unfortunately I don't have my own records hence the use of the yearbooks.

It's good to hear, however, that even in your stats McGuire is out in front.

I suppose the advantage of the yearbook figure is that its easier to compare McGuire to Pryce.

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
Danny McGuire--------135---------166----------0.813253012

vs

Leon Pryce-------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
At St. Helens-----------40-----------80----------0.5
At Bradford-------------86----------188---------0.4574
Total--------------------126---------268---------0.470149

: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:04 pm  

Just going back to McGuire's game totals, could it be that the yearbook includes all SL fixtures (including play-offs), but not cup games?

: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:05 pm  

django wrote:

Thats fair enough! Unfortunately I don't have my own records hence the use of the yearbooks.

It's good to hear, however, that even in your stats McGuire is out in front.

I suppose the advantage of the yearbook figure is that its easier to compare McGuire to Pryce.

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
Danny McGuire--------135---------166----------0.813253012

vs

Leon Pryce-------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
At St. Helens-----------40-----------80----------0.5
At Bradford-------------86----------188---------0.4574
Total--------------------126---------268---------0.470149

At Bradford he played a lot of wing, full back and centre. I thought one of the reasons him leaving was to play SO?

: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:11 pm  

It isn't always the sign of a great standoff to have an outstanding try scoring record.
Off the top of my head I bet Wally Lewis, Brad Fittler and Lawrie Daley (3 of the best in the last 30 years when the Aussies have ruled the roost) don't have outstanding tries scored per game statistics.
Not that I'm equating Pryce with those guys, far from it, but a great no6 has to have more to his game than simply scoring tries.
Don't get me wrong I rate mcGuire and always have done & there isn't another No6 in the superleague I'd rather have in our squad but it depends on the entire team and its overall strentghs & weaknesses that count in the end.
Good to argue the point though.