Re: Sam Walters : Thu May 04, 2023 9:11 pm  

Jack Burton wrote:

Huddersfield have a great academy also

Yes to be fair to them. Bradford too traditionally though their best obviously end up elsewhere now. Wilson at Hudds a good example.

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 7:18 am  

Barrie’s Glass Eye wrote:

I think we’ve got a good solid core of young English talent, in the pack in particular.

I’d say signing Bentley for example is a sign of trying to sign the best from other clubs a la Gaz Ellis. This is harder these days with many going straight to the nrl.

I think the are we haven’t hit out of those three mentioned is the top quality overseas recruitment, even if its relative (because there’s no chance of a Webb or Ali anymore) I think perhaps Smith has tried to address this with Nene and maybe Lisone, but there’s too much overseas in the dead wood category at the minute.

Its the backs where we aren't developing players of real quality - only Handley and Newman has come through the academy to be regulars in the team in the last 5 years. We are supposed to have one of the best academies in SL. Is that all the best kids are in Lancashire these days?

Overseas is a challenge these days but Leeds have 7 overseas none of which are stand out players and would be wanted by other top clubs. Saints have two - both are top players, Wigan similar, both these clubs have excellent academies. If we are to have NRL players surely less numbers better quality or greater suitability to SL.

I get Smith is in a tough place and hopefully he will increase the quality of the squad for next season - my concern is he seems to want to have players he has coached before regardless of their suitability.

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 11:43 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Its the backs where we aren't developing players of real quality - only Handley and Newman has come through the academy to be regulars in the team in the last 5 years. We are supposed to have one of the best academies in SL. Is that all the best kids are in Lancashire these days?

Overseas is a challenge these days but Leeds have 7 overseas none of which are stand out players and would be wanted by other top clubs. Saints have two - both are top players, Wigan similar, both these clubs have excellent academies. If we are to have NRL players surely less numbers better quality or greater suitability to SL.

I get Smith is in a tough place and hopefully he will increase the quality of the squad for next season - my concern is he seems to want to have players he has coached before regardless of their suitability.

I’d say that is to do with intake as well as coaching though. Previously it seemed to be developing forwards we struggled with while having an abundance of backs.

For a long time it was hard to get into the backs at Leeds because we had such high quality.
There’s also a bit of luck involved as well. Walker and his injuries, Golding perhaps a case of bad timing, Broadbent playing super league every week. Sutcliffe is a SL standard player and so is Alex Sutcliffe.

Overseas is the problem area in our squad atm

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 11:55 am  

Barrie’s Glass Eye wrote:

I’d say that is to do with intake as well as coaching though. Previously it seemed to be developing forwards we struggled with while having an abundance of backs.

For a long time it was hard to get into the backs at Leeds because we had such high quality.
There’s also a bit of luck involved as well. Walker and his injuries, Golding perhaps a case of bad timing, Broadbent playing super league every week. Sutcliffe is a SL standard player and so is Alex Sutcliffe.

Overseas is the problem area in our squad atm

Recruitment is very hard, sometimes you sign a proven NRL player and they are outstanding for you, sometimes theyre a flop.

Sometimes you have the best up and coming youngster in Britain and it just doesn't work out. Sometimes the best young player in your team is someone that flies under the radar at junior level.

So many variables at play, which get the coaches a lot of criticism when it doesn't go right.

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 2:11 pm  

leedsbarmyarmy wrote:

Recruitment is very hard, sometimes you sign a proven NRL player and they are outstanding for you, sometimes theyre a flop.

Sometimes you have the best up and coming youngster in Britain and it just doesn't work out. Sometimes the best young player in your team is someone that flies under the radar at junior level.

So many variables at play, which get the coaches a lot of criticism when it doesn't go right.

Very well said, and you should realise this the longer you follow sport. However fans prefer A+B= C

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 2:59 pm  

There is luck involved but having people around who are good judges and coaches of juniors helps a lot, as does actually focusing on trying to get the best kids to the club in the first place. Regardless of what GH or any of the first team coaches said about youth development, for a fair while (from the back end of McDermott's tenure until a year or so ago as far as I can tell) it was an afterthought and a chance to give coaching jobs to the boys rather than a seriously planned programme. That's why we just don't have many class club-developed players at the peak of their careers in the squad today. Thankfully we seem to have turned the corner there but it will take years to bear fruit.

In terms of NRL recruitment its getting harder but you've much more chance if you actually watch games rather than highlights reels, and have good contacts in Oz with respect to fringe players. Hopefully Smith will help with the latter, because our overseas recruitment has been poor for a number of years, with our highest paid players generally being a huge letdown.

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 3:01 pm  

Once were Loiners wrote:

There is luck involved but having people around who are good judges and coaches of juniors helps a lot, as does actually focusing on trying to get the best kids to the club in the first place. Regardless of what GH or any of the first team coaches said about youth development, for a fair while (from the back end of McDermott's tenure until a year or so ago as far as I can tell) it was an afterthought and a chance to give coaching jobs to the boys rather than a seriously planned programme. That's why we just don't have many class club-developed players at the peak of their careers in the squad today. Thankfully we seem to have turned the corner there but it will take years to bear fruit.

In terms of NRL recruitment its getting harder but you've much more chance if you actually watch games rather than highlights reels, and have good contacts in Oz with respect to fringe players. Hopefully Smith will help with the latter, because our overseas recruitment has been poor for a number of years, with our highest paid players generally being a huge letdown.

Fair points. Wish you were CEO now!

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 7:02 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Its the backs where we aren't developing players of real quality - only Handley and Newman has come through the academy to be regulars in the team in the last 5 years. We are supposed to have one of the best academies in SL. Is that all the best kids are in Lancashire these days?

Overseas is a challenge these days but Leeds have 7 overseas none of which are stand out players and would be wanted by other top clubs. Saints have two - both are top players, Wigan similar, both these clubs have excellent academies. If we are to have NRL players surely less numbers better quality or greater suitability to SL.

I get Smith is in a tough place and hopefully he will increase the quality of the squad for next season - my concern is he seems to want to have players he has coached before regardless of their suitability.

Saints and Wigan don't have 2 O/S players.
Saints have 6, Wigan have 7.

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 7:16 pm  

Simmo71 wrote:

Saints and Wigan don't have 2 O/S players.
Saints have 6, Wigan have 7.

I’d be surprised if any Super League team doesn’t use as many overseas spots as they can afford. To do otherwise would seem a bit daft.

There’s a difference in the quality and value of those players perhaps but that’s a different argument.

Re: Sam Walters : Fri May 05, 2023 10:40 pm  

Simmo71 wrote:

Saints and Wigan don't have 2 O/S players.
Saints have 6, Wigan have 7.

Saints have seven