: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:29 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Losing to the better team is what sport is all about. Now how do you prevent being second best on the day? Perhaps by making the most of opportunities.

If Buderus was far from match fit what was the rationale behind his selection?
Leeds' understrength pack was outplayed in all three games.

Why is the attack and defence disjointed?

Coaching? Personnel? Lack of strategic thinking?

How else will he get match fit??
We can and will play better with the squad we have you know that and i know that.
Would a couple of world class signing's for huge wage's and transfer fees of prevented either defeat???
We will never know but there's no shame in losing a big game afterall we aren't entitled to win every match.
There's better performance's in every player selected on saturday and that will come and will be good enough to win the league imo of course.

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:29 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Losing to the better team is what sport is all about. Now how do you prevent being second best on the day? Perhaps by making the most of opportunities.

If Buderus was far from match fit what was the rationale behind his selection?

Leeds' understrength pack was outplayed in all three games.

Why is the attack and defence disjointed?

Coaching? Personnel? Lack of strategic thinking?

Buderus wasn't far from match fit, if he wasn't fit he wouldn't have played, you're making criticism out of thin air.

I wouldn't say outplayed.

Because this is the first time we've had the halves, full back, loose and hookers all playing.

Not working as a unit, maybe the occasion mentally taking it out of the players.

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:39 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Losing to the better team is what sport is all about. Now how do you prevent being second best on the day? Perhaps by making the most of opportunities.

If Buderus was far from match fit what was the rationale behind his selection?

Leeds' understrength pack was outplayed in all three games.

Why is the attack and defence disjointed?

Coaching? Personnel? Lack of strategic thinking?



Try telling you can't win them all to St Helens in the Challenge Cup. It appears a concept they could do with introducing to.



Or is it just Leeds and the rest that can't win them all?

They've just had a good record in the Challenge Cup, we've had a good record in Grand Finals winning 3 of the last 5

Over the last 5 years:

2004 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2004 Super League - Leeds
2005 WCC - Leeds
2005 Challenge Cup - Hull
2005 Super League - Bradford
2006 WCC - Bradford
2006 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2006 Grand Final - St Helens
2007: WCC - St Helens
2007: Challenge Cup - St Helens
2007 Super League - Leeds
2008 WCC - Leeds
2008 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2008 Super League - Leeds
2009 WCC - Manly

St Helens 6
Leeds 5
Bradford 2
Hull 1
Manly 1

Saints don't win them all.

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:42 pm  

efcrhino wrote:

Unfortunately there was nobody avaliable who would increase the quality of our squad, would a second rate Aussie do anything more than what we've got?

You don't know that. A second rate Aussie like George Carmont, James Evans, Steven Bell or David Howell you mean. It wouldn't need to be a current Aussie rep player to be several shades better than what Leeds have available at present.

efcrhino wrote:

We haven't played well but we're still top, yes we've lost two trophies, we were unlucky to draw Saints early, but we'd have had to play them sometime.

Why unlucky? Leeds were incredibly fortunate to draw them at Headingley.

efcrhino wrote:

I'm sure a big messege will be sent out on Friday night, and the doubters will be proved wrong, keep the faith.

Whatever happens on Friday it will prove nothing that matters one jot. Leeds haven't defended their WCC title and are out of the Challenge Cup at the first hurdle, beaten at home.

efcrhino wrote:

Over the last 5 years:

2004 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2004 Super League - Leeds
2005 WCC - Leeds
2005 Challenge Cup - Hull
2005 Super League - Bradford
2006 WCC - Bradford
2006 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2007: WCC - St Helens
2007: Challenge Cup - St Helens
2007 Super League - Leeds
2008 WCC - Leeds
2008 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2008 Super League - Leeds
2009 WCC - Manly

Why has 2004 and 2006 only got two titles when 2005, 2007 and 2008 got three?

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:50 pm  

efcrhino wrote:

They've just had a good record in the Challenge Cup, we've had a good record in Grand Finals winning 3 of the last 5

Over the last 5 years:

2004 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2004 Super League - Leeds
2005 WCC - Leeds
2005 Challenge Cup - Hull
2005 Super League - Bradford
2006 WCC - Bradford
2006 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2007: WCC - St Helens
2007: Challenge Cup - St Helens
2007 Super League - Leeds
2008 WCC - Leeds
2008 Challenge Cup - St Helens
2008 Super League - Leeds
2009 WCC - Manly

St Helens 5 (35.7%)
Leeds 5 (35.7%)
Bradford 2 (14.2%)
Hull 1 (7.1%)
Manly 1 (7.1%)

Saints don't win them all.

You missed off Saints 2006 Grand Final victory. And if you are going to include the mickey mouse WCC, why not include the league leaders shield. In fact, include actual silverwear won. Go on.

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:51 pm  

tvoc wrote:

You don't know that. A second rate Aussie like George Carmont, James Evans, Steven Bell or David Howell you mean. It wouldn't need to be a current Aussie rep player to be several shades better than what Leeds have available at present.



Why unlucky? Leeds were incredibly fortunate to draw them at Headingley.




Whatever happens on Friday it will prove nothing that matters one jot. Leeds haven't defended their WCC title and are out of the Challenge Cup at the first hurdle, beaten at home.

You're just being silly now, if we got any other team in the 4th round we'd be pretty much certainly in the next round, and the last time we beat them (excluding OT) was at their ground. So you're all for buying second rate Aussies instead of developing our game here. It's your opinion mate you're fully entitled to it and this argument has gone far enough now, we're out, we were poor, there's nothing we can do about it now, there's still the biggest prize avaliable and IMO if we finish top and win it, then it will have been a very sucsessful season. Saints had a blip at the start last year, losing half of their first 10 games, losing 4 in 5 as a matter of fact there's a long way to go and this certainly isn't the end of our season as some people on this board are acting it out to be.

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:53 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Why has 2004 and 2006 only got two titles when 2005, 2007 and 2008 got three?

2006 was a mistake, 2004 because it's the last 5 years, so I meant last 5 WCC, CC and SL

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:07 pm  

efcrhino wrote:

You're just being silly now

Thank you.

efcrhino wrote:

So you're all for buying second rate Aussies instead of developing our game here.

Where have I said that? I'm all for developing the Leeds squad from wherever that may be. If there's an Academy player ready to make the step up then that is what Leeds should do. Apart from the ageing Senior, Smith/Gibson/Watkins is short on centre experience. Ablett is the second most experienced centre currently at Leeds.

efcrhino wrote:

there's a long way to go and this certainly isn't the end of our season as some people on this board are acting it out to be.

Who is saying it's the end of Leeds' season? It's the end of Leeds' Challenge Cup for another year though.

efcrhino wrote:

2006 was a mistake, 2004 because it's the last 5 years, so I meant last 5 WCC, CC and SL

Is it equitable to include a game that only one British team gets the chance to compete in each season?

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:16 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Where have I said that? I'm all for developing the Leeds squad from wherever that may be. If there's an Academy player ready to make the step up then that is what Leeds should do. Apart from the ageing Senior, Smith/Gibson/Watkins is short on centre experience. Ablett is the second most experienced centre currently at Leeds.

tvoc wrote:

You don't know that. A second rate Aussie like George Carmont, James Evans, Steven Bell or David Howell you mean. It wouldn't need to be a current Aussie rep player to be several shades better than what Leeds have available at present.

You're saying James Evans and David Howell are better than what we've got and to me they're second rate Aussies and not much if at all better than what we've got, buying these type of players would ruin the development of our young homegrown talent.

I never said anyone said it was the end of the season, all I said was some of the opinions people have expressed on this forum have been posts in the mindset that we can't win anything.

: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:33 pm  

efcrhino wrote:

You're saying James Evans and David Howell are better than what we've got and to me they're second rate Aussies and not much if at all better than what we've got, buying these type of players would ruin the development of our young homegrown talent.

So even what you would call '2nd rate Aussies' are better than what Leeds have got at the moment? I think that's the point. I've always believed that a player's time is now. You don't include players just because sometime in the future they will be good enough, you play them when they are good enough.

efcrhino wrote:

I never said anyone said it was the end of the season, all I said was some of the opinions people have expressed on this forum have been posts in the mindset that we can't win anything.

As long as St Helens are lining up on the other side of the pitch that appears likely to be the case this season if the last three weeks is any guide to the future.

The funny thing is overall, man for man Leeds may just about have their measure but as a team they're not even close at the moment.