Re: Ryan Bailey : Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:20 pm  

Did really show a lack of skill to not score in the first few minutes. Also dropping the elbow on Riley was a proper sh*thouse move, although one born from frustration and something he doesn't do as much of as he used to.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:24 am  

Someone stated that

"On Saturday Carvell gave an excellent display of how a prop show play."

and that Bailey is just a cheap shot merchant.... I have no sympathy with his shot on Riley at the end but did anyone else notice the cheap shot by Carvell on Buderus that led to Buderus's second knock-on after five minutes. Buderus is lying on his back with a Warrinton forward laid across him and Carvell came in over the top and smashed his forearm over Buderus's forehead. Hardly surprising that he subsequently knocked-on: he probably couldn't see clearly for a minute or two afterwards.

Bailey is no saint and more than capable of being a complete numpty when frustration gets the better of him - but then again, he isn't the only one either...

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:17 am  

It isn't the first time that Bailey has been held up over the try line. IIRC it has happened at least twice in the last couple of seasons.

I think it is fair that Bailey takes some of the flak from Saturday's game, along with Leuluai. As our most experienced props they knew they had big shoes to fill in JP's absence but their performance was very disappointing. Without a forward platform there was no chance for the likes of McGuire, Sinfield, Burrow etc to show their skills. I would be very interested in seeing the stats for the game - it wouldn't surprise me if Hall, Delaney and Senior made more metres than our two first choice props for the day. IIRC the BBC see put a stat up late in the game showing metres made, and it looked like Warrington had made twice the metres as Leeds. Disgraceful. It was obviously a tactic to use the backs to share the workload but neither Leuluai or Bailey seemed to spend that long on the field.

Otherwise, Eastwood showed up better than the other heroes deemed fit to wear the badge by certain posters on this board. Kirke has come in for some unfair stick for THAT missed tackle, especially considering that Hall was the first one to miss (perhaps he was knackered from all the extra hit-ups so that Bailey and Leuluai could get a break?).

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:29 am  

Exeter Rhino wrote:

It isn't the first time that Bailey has been held up over the try line. IIRC it has happened at least twice in the last couple of seasons.

I think it is fair that Bailey takes some of the flak from Saturday's game, along with Leuluai. As our most experienced props they knew they had big shoes to fill in JP's absence but their performance was very disappointing. Without a forward platform there was no chance for the likes of McGuire, Sinfield, Burrow etc to show their skills. I would be very interested in seeing the stats for the game - it wouldn't surprise me if Hall, Delaney and Senior made more metres than our two first choice props for the day. IIRC the BBC see put a stat up late in the game showing metres made, and it looked like Warrington had made twice the metres as Leeds. Disgraceful. It was obviously a tactic to use the backs to share the workload but neither Leuluai or Bailey seemed to spend that long on the field.

Otherwise, Eastwood showed up better than the other heroes deemed fit to wear the badge by certain posters on this board. Kirke has come in for some unfair stick for THAT missed tackle, especially considering that Hall was the first one to miss (perhaps he was knackered from all the extra hit-ups so that Bailey and Leuluai could get a break?).

Anyone who thought Bailey was going to give us go forward on Saturday is deluding themselves, since he never has and never will show that ability. He was in there for a defensive job, which to all intents and purposes he did, and 29 tackles with zero misses would back that up. The fact that he was starting was more down to experience than to make expected yards, a decision IMO that was short sighted by the club, and would have preferred the yards option to start.

A professional rugby player from the position he was in and running at, should score every single time from that opportunity, but he really just does not know what to do with the ball in his hands, so it was hardly a surprise that he failed to score.

I don't think the props should take the blame for Saturday though. Our backrow (all of them) were quite frankly very dissapointing. They offered zero opportunites for the half backs from a running point of view, and each did their fair share of poor tackling. When you then take into account Senior stood watching for two of their tries and been at fault for the position they got for another, I don't see why the props should take the blame for the game.

I honestly don't think JP would have really made that much difference to the result on Saturday.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:32 am  

How many of those 29 tackles were ones where he was 3rd man in, when the opposing player had already been stopped?

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:40 am  

Moomin wrote:

How many of those 29 tackles were ones where he was 3rd man in, when the opposing player had already been stopped?

I don't know, why don't you tell us if you are so sure?

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:37 pm  

The Bailey effort was halted by his own ego, he wanted to smash Mathers out the way, if he went low would have vexed it. I felt sorry for Leeds as you came up against a fierce pack with out your best prop. Our defence was awesome as well.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:56 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Anyone who thought Bailey was going to give us go forward on Saturday is deluding themselves, since he never has and never will show that ability. He was in there for a defensive job, which to all intents and purposes he did, and 29 tackles with zero misses would back that up. The fact that he was starting was more down to experience than to make expected yards, a decision IMO that was short sighted by the club, and would have preferred the yards option to start.

A professional rugby player from the position he was in and running at, should score every single time from that opportunity, but he really just does not know what to do with the ball in his hands, so it was hardly a surprise that he failed to score.

I don't think the props should take the blame for Saturday though. Our backrow (all of them) were quite frankly very dissapointing. They offered zero opportunites for the half backs from a running point of view, and each did their fair share of poor tackling. When you then take into account Senior stood watching for two of their tries and been at fault for the position they got for another, I don't see why the props should take the blame for the game.

I honestly don't think JP would have really made that much difference to the result on Saturday.

There are quite a number of players in our pack whose go forward or metres gained is quite pathetic, not just on saturday but in general.
I've never been one for kneejerking but i honestly feel if you take Peacock, Lauititi and Eastwood out of our pack the standard drops quite alarmingly.
I just don't think there is enough size and power in the pack.
If JJB was an Aussie he would receive a hell of alot of criticism i can tell you that.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:13 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

The fact that he was starting was more down to experience than to make expected yards, a decision IMO that was short sighted by the club, and would have preferred the yards option to start.

I'd also have preferred the yards option, I'm just not sure that we have one when Peacock's hurt or having a bad day. Barring him we don't have a single prop with the prove ability to make a double figure number of hit-ups in a game on a regular basis. Saints have the same problem IMO - neutralise Graham and all of a sudden their pack collapses.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:16 pm  

Matt23 wrote:

Did really show a lack of skill to not score in the first few minutes. Also dropping the elbow on Riley was a proper sh*thouse move, although one born from frustration and something he doesn't do as much of as he used to.

Because he thinks he's hard, TMFTMITTISL was more intent on smashing a fullback half his own size by running over the top of him rather than making the scoring of a try a priority - a fullback who is notorious for being arm-flapping, gyrating turnstile when anyone attempts to run past him on either side. If there's one thing that turnstile fullback has always been fairly adept at, it's wrapping the ball up in one-on-one tackles due to his preferred method of tackling opponents upper body region.