Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:46 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Salford will be better served building a strong club from top to bottom over a number of years.

What Marwen appears to be trying to do is build a house with foundations of sand.

Without the long term foundations it will all come tumbling down in a few years and leave Salford and Marwen with bigger issues than they have now.

By all means they need to strengthen the team but for me it needs to be done in increments over a number of years.

Look at this year, they made loads of signings in the off season and were talking about winning the league. As it is they are looking over their shoulder at the slight possibility of relegation.

It takes time to build an empire, and they need to set realistic goals.

We have seen how Catalan and Widnes have started from humble beginnings and turned themselves into good sides.
Salford need to do the same.

No doubt they will be shouting about winning the league next year, when in reality a more realistic target will be finishing in the top 8. Then the following year looking to get in the top 5 or 6 then after that looking to make a semi final or final.

Something similar is going on with many Saints fans. At the start of the year some Saints fans were thinking we would win the lot. The reality is that as a side we haven't won anything for years, and so need to relearn how to get onto the pedestal. There is an old saying that you need to lose a final before you win one. Saints need to learn first how to get to finals and only then can we dream of winning one or more of them.

Agreed mate.

If he's in it for the long haul like he says, then I don't see why all the rush.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:34 am  

Taking away the respective pros and cons of each argument, does a marquee player rule fit within Saints current business model? We are debt free and looking to make a profit for the first time in years, would Eamon or Rushy want to out out and spend £300k-£400k a season on a top line Aussie?

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:45 am  

The Chief wrote:

Taking away the respective pros and cons of each argument, does a marquee player rule fit within Saints current business model? We are debt free and looking to make a profit for the first time in years, would Eamon or Rushy want to out out and spend £300k-£400k a season on a top line Aussie?

Well, the unexpected increase in sky money this year would probably cover any marquee salary - assuming eamon knew as much as everyone else about the sky negotiations and the 500k is unbudgeted for, a marquee shouldn't affect our ability to break even (as we were hoping for previous to the sky deal) - but I think on principle eamon has better plans for the money...

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:58 pm  

This is great stuff! It makes me laugh every time he talks about the marquee signing rule and refers to it as one of his "ideas". It was first proposed by the RFL in a policy document before Koukash got involved in RL.

When the first vote was taken and the rule was rejected, he referred to Saints as being, and I quote, a "club that is holding back the game in this Country". He then has the cheek to come out and start talking about 'respect'.

If anyone wants to know what EM really thinks of the Doctor, then they should have heard what he had to say about him at one of the fans forums. He ripped into him big style. It was hilarious. He said that most of the time he doesn't understand a word that he is saying. He also said something along the lines of, "I am not going to take any lectures about RL from someone who just 12 to 18 months ago thought that Sonny Bill Williams was a country and western singer".

EM has got this whole thing spot on. Let's get our own house in order in this Country. Make sure that every SL club is financially stable and THEN consider the marquee signing rule.

We have to invest in youth first and make sure that every British player stays in our competition.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:47 pm  

The Chief wrote:

Taking away the respective pros and cons of each argument, does a marquee player rule fit within Saints current business model? We are debt free and looking to make a profit for the first time in years, would Eamon or Rushy want to out out and spend £300k-£400k a season on a top line Aussie?

I'm not sure we are debt free. McManus stated during his Superleague Superstars interview that Saints don't have any bank debt. However, there is that £3 million that the club borrowed from one of its directors to furnish the stadium.

According to Mike Rush in his interview for Forty20 a few months ago (or was it Rugby League World? One of them anyway) the club is looking at breaking even by the end of this year.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:10 pm  

http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/4163 Eamonn hit's back: Despite comments to the contrary in recent days, I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength as we prepare to enter into a new and exciting era. It is fantastic news that the game's commercial and marketing operations are transferring to Media City in Greater Manchester. Manchester is an international city, an international sporting city and an international media city. Rugby league is an international sport with a great product which is steeped in tradition and history. It is a significant and welcome step forward that we are now running and accurately presenting ourselves as such. It has always been an issue of mine that our headquarters is located at Red Hall, namely in a farmer's field twenty miles north of Leeds. No slight meant on Leeds but every slight meant on farmers' fields when it comes to a sporting business HQ and their consequent image. More importantly, our new long term TV deal, combined with the very exciting new league formula for next season, will result in every club being able to spend full salary cap in 2015 without the overspending which blighted our game in recent years and which resulted in an embarrassing slew of club bankruptcies. We are now in a position whereby every game in next year's Super League will be fantastically competitive, and every club could and should be profitable. What a unique and enviable message of strength that would send out for rugby league amidst the otherwise increasingly insane and unstable commercial world of professional sport. I was therefore happy that this week's Super League AGM saw ten clubs vote to defer consideration of the potentially inflationary "Marquee player proposal" to a date after the new league system has time to prove itself and bed in. More importantly, it is to be reconsidered in conjunction with other critically related matters regarding salary cap and British player production and retention. It was hilarious that Salford claimed that it was voted down by "RFL friendly clubs" when the proposal was created by the RFL in the first instance and re tabled by the RFL subsequently - you certainly don't need enemies with friends like that! It is nevertheless heart-warming that we can still maintain a keen sense of humour even when we discuss the most serious of matters. What is not humorous however is the normally very sensible and impressive Brian Carney suggesting that the salary cap be disbanded altogether. He says that rugby league clubs did not go insolvent before its adoption. I'm afraid there couldn't be anything further from the truth. In fact, the big three of Saints, Wigan and Leeds were all seriously bust due to overspending on players and had to be bailed out by myself, Dave Whelan and Paul Caddick respectively. Other clubs even had to merge to save themselves. It was because of this that the salary cap was adopted and with the unanimous and continuing approval of clubs. It is the envy of other sports. Super League was saved by it and would be deeply vulnerable without it. Clubs have to be permanently self-sustaining and not dependent on the temporary largesse of chairmen and directors. Our new TV deal enables that as long as salary cap remains, and at its current level and in its current form.

http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/4163 Eamonn hit's back: Despite comments to the contrary in recent days, I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength as we prepare to enter into a new and exciting era. It is fantastic news that the game's commercial and marketing operations are transferring to Media City in Greater Manchester. Manchester is an international city, an international sporting city and an international media city. Rugby league is an international sport with a great product which is steeped in tradition and history. It is a significant and welcome step forward that we are now running and accurately presenting ourselves as such. It has always been an issue of mine that our headquarters is located at Red Hall, namely in a farmer's field twenty miles north of Leeds. No slight meant on Leeds but every slight meant on farmers' fields when it comes to a sporting business HQ and their consequent image. More importantly, our new long term TV deal, combined with the very exciting new league formula for next season, will result in every club being able to spend full salary cap in 2015 without the overspending which blighted our game in recent years and which resulted in an embarrassing slew of club bankruptcies. We are now in a position whereby every game in next year's Super League will be fantastically competitive, and every club could and should be profitable. What a unique and enviable message of strength that would send out for rugby league amidst the otherwise increasingly insane and unstable commercial world of professional sport. I was therefore happy that this week's Super League AGM saw ten clubs vote to defer consideration of the potentially inflationary "Marquee player proposal" to a date after the new league system has time to prove itself and bed in. More importantly, it is to be reconsidered in conjunction with other critically related matters regarding salary cap and British player production and retention. It was hilarious that Salford claimed that it was voted down by "RFL friendly clubs" when the proposal was created by the RFL in the first instance and re tabled by the RFL subsequently - you certainly don't need enemies with friends like that! It is nevertheless heart-warming that we can still maintain a keen sense of humour even when we discuss the most serious of matters. What is not humorous however is the normally very sensible and impressive Brian Carney suggesting that the salary cap be disbanded altogether. He says that rugby league clubs did not go insolvent before its adoption. I'm afraid there couldn't be anything further from the truth. In fact, the big three of Saints, Wigan and Leeds were all seriously bust due to overspending on players and had to be bailed out by myself, Dave Whelan and Paul Caddick respectively. Other clubs even had to merge to save themselves. It was because of this that the salary cap was adopted and with the unanimous and continuing approval of clubs. It is the envy of other sports. Super League was saved by it and would be deeply vulnerable without it. Clubs have to be permanently self-sustaining and not dependent on the temporary largesse of chairmen and directors. Our new TV deal enables that as long as salary cap remains, and at its current level and in its current form.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:20 pm  

And we are done.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:26 pm  

Rommel wrote:

http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/4163

Eamonn hit's back:

Despite comments to the contrary in recent days, I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength as we prepare to enter into a new and exciting era. It is fantastic news that the game's commercial and marketing operations are transferring to Media City in Greater Manchester. Manchester is an international city, an international sporting city and an international media city. Rugby league is an international sport with a great product which is steeped in tradition and history. It is a significant and welcome step forward that we are now running and accurately presenting ourselves as such. It has always been an issue of mine that our headquarters is located at Red Hall, namely in a farmer's field twenty miles north of Leeds. No slight meant on Leeds but every slight meant on farmers' fields when it comes to a sporting business HQ and their consequent image.

More importantly, our new long term TV deal, combined with the very exciting new league formula for next season, will result in every club being able to spend full salary cap in 2015 without the overspending which blighted our game in recent years and which resulted in an embarrassing slew of club bankruptcies. We are now in a position whereby every game in next year's Super League will be fantastically competitive, and every club could and should be profitable. What a unique and enviable message of strength that would send out for rugby league amidst the otherwise increasingly insane and unstable commercial world of professional sport.

I was therefore happy that this week's Super League AGM saw ten clubs vote to defer consideration of the potentially inflationary "Marquee player proposal" to a date after the new league system has time to prove itself and bed in. More importantly, it is to be reconsidered in conjunction with other critically related matters regarding salary cap and British player production and retention. It was hilarious that Salford claimed that it was voted down by "RFL friendly clubs" when the proposal was created by the RFL in the first instance and re tabled by the RFL subsequently - you certainly don't need enemies with friends like that! It is nevertheless heart-warming that we can still maintain a keen sense of humour even when we discuss the most serious of matters.

What is not humorous however is the normally very sensible and impressive Brian Carney suggesting that the salary cap be disbanded altogether. He says that rugby league clubs did not go insolvent before its adoption. I'm afraid there couldn't be anything further from the truth. In fact, the big three of Saints, Wigan and Leeds were all seriously bust due to overspending on players and had to be bailed out by myself, Dave Whelan and Paul Caddick respectively. Other clubs even had to merge to save themselves. It was because of this that the salary cap was adopted and with the unanimous and continuing approval of clubs. It is the envy of other sports. Super League was saved by it and would be deeply vulnerable without it. Clubs have to be permanently self-sustaining and not dependent on the temporary largesse of chairmen and directors. Our new TV deal enables that as long as salary cap remains, and at its current level and in its current form.

I might have been very critical of McManus doing things on the cheap at Saints with retention and signings but I couldn't agree more on everything he says salary cap and marquee related.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:11 pm  

I totally agree with your Chairman's points re the marquee player proposal, and I'm glad that he deemed it the right course of action to publically state his view as a counter to Koucash's dummy spit.

He seems to have overlooked the fact that Leeds is an international city and indeed major sporting city, other than that he's spot on.

Re: Koukash rips into McManus : Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:03 pm  

Les Norton wrote:

I totally agree with your Chairman's points re the marquee player proposal, and I'm glad that he deemed it the right course of action to publically state his view as a counter to Koucash's dummy spit.

He seems to have overlooked the fact that Leeds is an international city and indeed major sporting city, other than that he's spot on.

I don't think he was having a go at Leeds as such, in fact I think he mentions he isn't. It's more the fact it's in the middle of nowhere.