Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:33 pm  

I personally don't want KC sacked as I like him. I also didn't want him to take the job so early as he wasn't ready imo. He needed at least 2 more years as assistant before taking the job.

I'd rather a good experienced coach who is modern in the how the game is played could come in and help KC out.

I'll be sad if KC leaves the club tbh but the way things look its going to happen imo. It's not the losses, it's the way we play. The crowd are sick of it and resulting in the atmosphere being dead at LP.

If this type of rugby continues and the crowd drops off them mcmanus will have no option.

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:14 pm  

St pete wrote:

I personally don't want KC sacked as I like him. I also didn't want him to take the job so early as he wasn't ready imo. He needed at least 2 more years as assistant before taking the job.

I'd rather a good experienced coach who is modern in the how the game is played could come in and help KC out.

I'll be sad if KC leaves the club tbh but the way things look its going to happen imo. It's not the losses, it's the way we play. The crowd are sick of it and resulting in the atmosphere being dead at LP.

If this type of rugby continues and the crowd drops off them mcmanus will have no option.

That's the key Pete. It doesn't matter how long a deal he has signed or how much they back him publicly. If these performances continue then the current rumblings of discontent will turn into people staying away and that will negatively affect the business.

McManus won't sit back and let that happen. No matter how much he wants Cunningham to succeed; the sustainability of the business, and his ability to ultimately 'sell' it, is paramount.

I can't see things staying as they are for much longer, especially if we get a hiding next week.

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:47 pm  

It's sad to see such a club legend failing like this.

As said above its our style of play that is the issue; not necessarily just wins/losses. If we played like Leeds did tonight and used the ball on Friday i don't think it would be half as bad.

All the good rebuild that Brown put in place after Potter/Royce is in danger of being undone. I can't remember the last time I though that we were a good team with the ball.

Will McManus do anything about it? I'd say that he won't. I don't want him to sack KC but something needs to be done.

A good performance at our bogey ground next week would be a start

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:05 am  

But its not just KC its the others making up the old boys club. Just because you've been a valued player doesn't make you a great staff member or coach, or club captain for that matter. If the performances start to turn people away from the turnstyles and affect the business plan then it will be incumbent on McManus to act.

He has a range of options that he can opt for but quite simply he can't allow it to persist as it is.

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:26 am  

Albion wrote:

It's sad to see such a club legend failing like this.

Failing? We've only played two league games!

I'm not saying everything is peachy at the minute but let's not lose touch with planet earth just yet.

Name me ONE coaching great who didn't lose a game, put together a poor string of results and drift perilously close to the exit.

I'd argue that Cunningham is as much a victim of personnel as any perceived limitations in coaching.

Admittedly he's at least partially responsible in this department. But there are plenty of contracts he had either limited or no part in signing off. And I don't care what club you choose - I find it hard to believe they would be completely unaffected by losing half of their creative unit for the best part of two seasons (Lomax & Walsh).

Both players have been sucking us dry of wages for very little return. Moreover, they have completely prevented us from making the one or two signings we desperately need to fill problem positions. As for Travis Burns - I'd love to know who scouted him and what reasoning made that decision possible. Whilst he performed well in his first season at Hull KR by the time we picked him up it seemed like just about everyone in the game knew his legs were gone. Who signed off his medical?

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:52 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Failing? We've only played two league games!

But we had a season of Cunningham's coaching last year to judge as well. Last season was one where the results themselves were acceptable. We lost in both semi finals to Leeds, who had a legendary side. Fine in terms of outcomes really. But the glaring problem, as discussed above, is the style of play. It was mind numbing at times last season, with everyone feeling the entertainment value had simply disappeared. We'd eroded a lot of the Saints way over Cunningham's tenure, he was involved with the previous coaches since his retirement as well. That style of play is so poor now that it's affected season ticket sales and will continue to affect attendances. RL is not an industry with spare demand like football, where being a results based business is sustainable. You cannot employ a Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis in RL and dig out results, as the crowds will drop. I fear we've handed the keys over to Barcelona over to Allardyce.

Mugwump wrote:

I'd argue that Cunningham is as much a victim of personnel as any perceived limitations in coaching.

I'd agree with that, but an awful lot of those at the club are there because they were signed whilst Cunningham was on the coaching staff and being groomed for the top role. The same people are presumably also still at the club in Mike Rush and the rest of McManus' cronies.

Mugwump wrote:

As for Travis Burns - I'd love to know who scouted him and what reasoning made that decision possible.

It's widely acknowledged that it was Cunningham who wanted his signature. Brown was leaving by that point and Cunningham was calling the shots on recruitment for the following season when he'd be in charge. It's what made KC's statements about Burns's failings recently seem so laughable.

I think a lot of Saints fans, me included, thought that last season was a bedding in period and that this season would see the shackles come off. I thought we'd see Longy working with the backs and developing some real attacking intent. I thought we'd see progress. The signs from the first few games are awful, it seems there are no plans to change the style we're playing, there is no sign of progress. If this continues, there has got to be change. I personally think the pressure is telling on KC, you can see that from the stupid things he's saying in interviews recently, he's flat out lying about how things, or is delusional. There is also the rumblings from the squad about the style, Wilkin had a dig recently saying that clubs needs to be respecting the entertainment value of the sport more and playing more attacking rugby. That was clearly a dig at KC as we're the exact opposite. Four one out drives and a poor kick is our current play book and that's as far as it goes.

We've seen Hull KR lose to Wakefield, easily the worst team in SL history, this weekend. If Saints don't go there and absolutely muller them, something is drastically wrong. We should be winning that game by 20, we'll see if that's the case. We need to win the next three games, if we don't we could be in a spectacular mess come the end of April given the fixtures we have that month. The worrying thing is that the most likely way to win those games is to go even more safe and take even fewer risks. That brings a risk in that he'll be destroyed by the fans if that results in us losing one of those games.

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:42 am  

Saddened! wrote:

But we had a season of Cunningham's coaching last year to judge as well. Last season was one where the results themselves were acceptable. We lost in both semi finals to Leeds, who had a legendary side. Fine in terms of outcomes really. But the glaring problem, as discussed above, is the style of play. It was mind numbing at times last season, with everyone feeling the entertainment value had simply disappeared. We'd eroded a lot of the Saints way over Cunningham's tenure, he was involved with the previous coaches since his retirement as well. That style of play is so poor now that it's affected season ticket sales and will continue to affect attendances. RL is not an industry with spare demand like football, where being a results based business is sustainable. You cannot employ a Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis in RL and dig out results, as the crowds will drop. I fear we've handed the keys over to Barcelona over to Allardyce.

You are talking about a purely aesthetic and highly subjective question to which there is no right or wrong answer. Ultimately it's results that matter. Let's not forget that playing better football we LOST five Grand Finals whereas we are 1 from 1 playing the most conservative gameplan ever seen at Old Trafford.

Whether we like it or not Cunningham will see this as significant. Whether we like it or not Cunningham will NEVER be sacked because of conservative football but he certainly will if he loses too many games.

This is the price you pay for a fully-professional game. If you don't like the ride - don't buy a ticket.

It's widely acknowledged that it was Cunningham who wanted his signature. Brown was leaving by that point and Cunningham was calling the shots on recruitment for the following season when he'd be in charge. It's what made KC's statements about Burns's failings recently seem so laughable.

Cunningham might have wanted his signature - but we really don't know what he knew about Burns' condition leading up to him signing. It's entirely possible that Cunningham didn't know. But those involved in scouting him as well as the medical team have no excuses.

I think a lot of Saints fans, me included, thought that last season was a bedding in period and that this season would see the shackles come off. I thought we'd see Longy working with the backs and developing some real attacking intent. I thought we'd see progress. The signs from the first few games are awful, it seems there are no plans to change the style we're playing, there is no sign of progress. If this continues, there has got to be change. I personally think the pressure is telling on KC, you can see that from the stupid things he's saying in interviews recently, he's flat out lying about how things, or is delusional. There is also the rumblings from the squad about the style, Wilkin had a dig recently saying that clubs needs to be respecting the entertainment value of the sport more and playing more attacking rugby. That was clearly a dig at KC as we're the exact opposite. Four one out drives and a poor kick is our current play book and that's as far as it goes.

Given the balance of our squad I really don't know what justification you had in even THINKING we'd suddenly start throwing it about. From the above it appears that you were relying on Sean Long to sprinkle some fairy dust because I can't see any other way it's happening.

Sean Long can't turn Jordan Turner into Paul Newlove. Nor can he make Travis Burns play like Tommy Martyn. And if he does have any fairy dust my guess is he will need all of it just to get Lomax & Walsh back to full fitness.

I'm not saying we can't play more entertaining football. But whilst we are strong in certain facets of the game we just don't have that many good footballers. You can't do one without the other.

We've seen Hull KR lose to Wakefield, easily the worst team in SL history, this weekend. If Saints don't go there and absolutely muller them, something is drastically wrong. We should be winning that game by 20, we'll see if that's the case. We need to win the next three games, if we don't we could be in a spectacular mess come the end of April given the fixtures we have that month. The worrying thing is that the most likely way to win those games is to go even more safe and take even fewer risks. That brings a risk in that he'll be destroyed by the fans if that results in us losing one of those games.

Early results mean almost nothing. Sure, it's great if you can get plenty of points on the board early. But Huddersfield were abysmal at the start of the last campaign and yet finished like a train toward the championship rounds.

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:49 am  

We're absolutely terrible you will have no trouble beating us on Friday

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:24 pm  

When you do muller us on Friday, I know a few people who will be quite ecstatic, because they'll be able to cash in their winnings on their bet that Chester will be the first coaching casualty of the season.

That said, I like and admire KC but any more wide of the mark, illogical post match comments like the ones he made after the drubbing to the Roosters last Friday could conceivably see him shown the door before Chester. There's no place for uttering such cackamallababshit in any situation and certainly not after such a one sided affair. Tell it as it is.

Re: Huge test for McManus coming : Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:18 pm  

Pickering Red wrote:

When you do muller us on Friday, I know a few people who will be quite ecstatic, because they'll be able to cash in their winnings on their bet that Chester will be the first coaching casualty of the season.

That said, I like and admire KC but any more wide of the mark, illogical post match comments like the ones he made after the drubbing to the Roosters last Friday could conceivably see him shown the door before Chester. There's no place for uttering such cackamallababshit in any situation and certainly not after such a one sided affair. Tell it as it is.

He totally embarrassed himself.