Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:54 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

:CLAP:

It's wrong. It's fine as a theory, but reality doesn't reflect it. Potter is leaving at the end of the season and playing a terrible style of rugby with terrible execution and organisation isn't what he describes.

Potter was a stop gap, but for what? That is the interesting thing at the moment. He can't get a new deal, surely?

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:54 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

On the subject of preparation for the new season, people forget that the likes of Hull had a pre season that started last October.

When was the Grand Final? 4 October, something like that? Hardly much out of September anyway. Besides, Wigan and Hudds were only one week earlier than us in breaking up for the hols but I don't see them struggling.

Now remember that Saints and Leeds both had significant numbers of players in the international set up, which meant they were playing RL till the back end of November.

In the past we have had significant numbers on international duty: up to 8 players I believe. This year, in reality, only Graham, Roby and Eastmond played. Wilkin I think spent about 20 minutes on the pitch because of the injury to Shenton during the final and Moore was binned before we played Australia so he's had pretty much the same off season as everyone else. Strangely enough, Graham and Roby were two of our three best players on Saturday night and yet they really did have a shorter off season than most other players. Eastmond I'm sure would have been equally good had he not been tied to distributing the ball. So I don't think this element of your argument stands.

The same also applies to Leeds by the way, who struggled against Celtic and were noticably battered by a Castleford side that doesnt possess anything like the firepower of Hull.

According to reports, Castleford kicked the Whinos to death. Presumably they played to their strengths, something Potter should take note of when coaching Saints.

His job is not to win trophys per se (they are a bonus), its to manage the transition, and to put in place the nucleus of a new era of success.

That is not a valid reason for turning our rugby into a mistake-ridden dour spectacle. He can do both. We have enough talent on the field to play creative, enjoyable rugby as well as manage transition. Transition is not an excuse for the kinds of errors and limited moves we have been watching since June time.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:08 am  

Saddened! wrote:

It's wrong. It's fine as a theory, but reality doesn't reflect it. Potter is leaving at the end of the season and playing a terrible style of rugby with terrible execution and organisation isn't what he describes.

Potter was a stop gap, but for what? That is the interesting thing at the moment. He can't get a new deal, surely?

He's got a 2 year contract, let's see how he's going at the end of it.

Since we last won the title in 2006 we've lost: Lyon, Gilmour, Talau, Long, Scully, Baloo, Hooper, Cayless etc. Tell me that's not transition.

Potter's job was always to bring through the young players to deal with our transition. In his first year, the young players got lots of game time when fit and we reached (and could easily have won) the Grand Final.

We can judge the overall job by the end of this season, by which time the likes of Lomax and Wheeler will be first choices, Moore will have had a year around the team and Eastmond will have settled at 7 for a year. That is the time to judge Potter.

If the depths that our couple of transitional seasons plumb (between bringing through our promising youngsters and getting into the new stadium without spending full cap) consist of narrowly losing Grand Finals - I'll take that transition any day. It certainly beats the Wigan transition of near relegation and the Bulls' transition of missing the play-offs.

People talk about refreshing the squad, youngsters, patience . . . but when it comes to it - they're not prepared to accept it.

That's ignoring the fact that the league is far far better than it was when some of the same players we have now were racking up points for fun against dreadful squads.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:31 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

According to reports, Castleford kicked the Rhinos to death. Presumably they played to their strengths, something Potter should take note of when coaching Saints.

thats right mate chases short kicking game was out of this world! Leeds ripped cas open enough times to win the game but turned the ball over and over again. We made loads of unforced errors, had a shocking completion rate and the kicking game was a non starter. If teams turn as much ball over as Leeds did against cas and to some extent Celtic they will get beat. I've seen a few fans point to the Leeds result to take the edge of their own but the fact is you guys and the bulls were never really in the game both hull and hudds were well infront and the games were never really a true contest. if the ball had stuck a bit more Leeds would have beat cas

Leeds were guilty of over playing, saints looked battered

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:31 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

Leeds were guilty of over playing, saints looked battered

So leeds were mistake ridden, sounds like an ill prepared side.

Also there are excuses for Hull over running us.
For a start we lost three players during the game due to injury, this effectively reduced our interchange bench to 1. It was therefore no coincidence that once interchanges came into play around the 30 minute mark that Saints dominance disintegrated.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:12 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

So leeds were mistake ridden, sounds like an ill prepared side.

yes they were mistake ridden. I'll prepared? I would imagine the triple champs prep is pretty good, but the warm up was very short. I think few players a still building fitness. Losing ablett on 5 mins and delaney on 50 Mins didn't help. But injuries are part of the game. There were enough positives from the game, Eastwood is gonna be a cracker, delaney looks like a real find(shame he had to go off) peacock looks really fresh as does jjb. We broke the line and punched so good holes in cas. We just bombed the next phase 3 or 4 times.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:45 pm  

There were people on this site including me that never wanted potter from the start, and for me personally Ive not yet seen anything to make me want to change my mind.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:54 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

He's got a 2 year contract, let's see how he's going at the end of it.

Since we last won the title in 2006 we've lost: Lyon, Gilmour, Talau, Long, Scully, Baloo, Hooper, Cayless etc. Tell me that's not transition.

Potter's job was always to bring through the young players to deal with our transition. In his first year, the young players got lots of game time when fit and we reached (and could easily have won) the Grand Final.

We can judge the overall job by the end of this season, by which time the likes of Lomax and Wheeler will be first choices, Moore will have had a year around the team and Eastmond will have settled at 7 for a year. That is the time to judge Potter.

If the depths that our couple of transitional seasons plumb (between bringing through our promising youngsters and getting into the new stadium without spending full cap) consist of narrowly losing Grand Finals - I'll take that transition any day. It certainly beats the Wigan transition of near relegation and the Bulls' transition of missing the play-offs.

People talk about refreshing the squad, youngsters, patience . . . but when it comes to it - they're not prepared to accept it.

That's ignoring the fact that the league is far far better than it was when some of the same players we have now were racking up points for fun against dreadful squads.

Thats the reality, the board have made several mistakes and the quality coming in hasn't nearly matched that going out. So I personally would accept a drop off in competitiveness, the likes of Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield, Hull KR having the beating of us. But what I can't accept is how we are playing. Both in terms of the style of our performances and the quality levels. Teams like Salford, Crusaders etc don't look as clueless as we do. I wouldn't mind boring, drab possession and safety based tactics if they were well executed and showed planning. But can all the sympathisers please state how much work they think the club has done on last play moves? On the kicking game? On planning sets and how to break down specific teams, on defensive patterns on highlighting opponents strengths? It's like Saints met an hour before kick off, shook hands and had a go, that is the kind of performance level it was, shambolic at times.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:59 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Thats the reality, the board have made several mistakes and the quality coming in hasn't nearly matched that going out. So I personally would accept a drop off in competitiveness, the likes of Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield, Hull KR having the beating of us. But what I can't accept is how we are playing. Both in terms of the style of our performances and the quality levels. Teams like Salford, Crusaders etc don't look as clueless as we do. I wouldn't mind boring, drab possession and safety based tactics if they were well executed and showed planning. But can all the sympathisers please state how much work they think the club has done on last play moves? On the kicking game? On planning sets and how to break down specific teams, on defensive patterns on highlighting opponents strengths? It's like Saints met an hour before kick off, shook hands and had a go, that is the kind of performance level it was, shambolic at times.

Exellent reply,sums up my feelings exactly.

Re: Potter out NOW : Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:03 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Thats the reality, the board have made several mistakes and the quality coming in hasn't nearly matched that going out. So I personally would accept a drop off in competitiveness, the likes of Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield, Hull KR having the beating of us. But what I can't accept is how we are playing. Both in terms of the style of our performances and the quality levels. Teams like Salford, Crusaders etc don't look as clueless as we do. I wouldn't mind boring, drab possession and safety based tactics if they were well executed and showed planning. But can all the sympathisers please state how much work they think the club has done on last play moves? On the kicking game? On planning sets and how to break down specific teams, on defensive patterns on highlighting opponents strengths? It's like Saints met an hour before kick off, shook hands and had a go, that is the kind of performance level it was, shambolic at times.

Saddened, we don't always agree, but I agree with every word of that. I need a lie down...