Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:07 pm  

Thinking on the topic for a moment, I don't see why we don't experiment with Mose from the start. Whilst I'm more than happy with our current strength in the forwards our pattern of play has largely been fixed since two thirds into last season.

We really don't want to become too rigid and - predictable. Teams watch the videos midweek and (sans injuries) know which of our players will be on the field at any particular juncture. A good coach can exploit predictable behaviour.

I'd much prefer our opponents being far less certain about who will be on the pitch and when. Besides, this takes a lot of the strain off guys like Amor who don't possess Mose's frame and are thus more likely to get knocked about when the big tackles go in early on.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:22 pm  

I get the impression that Cunningham is not happy with Masoe at all. The first sign of lazy play and he seems to be off the pitch for the rest of the half.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:08 pm  

If Mose's not pulling his weight I'm more concerned that Cunningham is continuing to pick him than anything else. We're not so hard up in the forwards that we have no choice but allow ourselves to be held hostage by anyone.

Either way - the amount of time Mose's spending on the pitch isn't currently doing us any favours. If his attitude is fine but he's under-performing than give him more game time. We know he can play extended periods. So why don't we?

If Mose's attitude isn't right then yank him out of the side. This is not a difficult problem to solve.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:54 pm  

Yup, I agree with that.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:01 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

If Mose's not pulling his weight I'm more concerned that Cunningham is continuing to pick him than anything else. We're not so hard up in the forwards that we have no choice but allow ourselves to be held hostage by anyone.

Either way - the amount of time Mose's spending on the pitch isn't currently doing us any favours. If his attitude is fine but he's under-performing than give him more game time. We know he can play extended periods. So why don't we?

If Mose's attitude isn't right then yank him out of the side. This is not a difficult problem to solve.

Might be experience, Cunningham is still a new coach. He's probably waiting for him to come alive and smash a few holes in the opposition. There's still plenty of people (like yourself) who defend Mose and Cumningham himself is Saints through & through & maybe could also have the Saints tinted glasses on?

Time is running out for Mose, thank god. He's about as much use as braille that says 'wet paint'.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:33 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Might be experience, Cunningham is still a new coach. He's probably waiting for him to come alive and smash a few holes in the opposition. There's still plenty of people (like yourself) who defend Mose and Cumningham himself is Saints through & through & maybe could also have the Saints tinted glasses on?

Time is running out for Mose, thank god. He's about as much use as braille that says 'wet paint'.

It's not that simple. Mose is fitter than he's ever been at Saints and should be playing more minutes. He was forced to in one game earlier this season and did fine, having probably his best game for us. Last week he wasn't lazy, he just wasn't on the field. He had no impact in his first stint, but it wasn't his fault. He was looking for tackles, Leeds were avoiding him by throwing the ball around to bypass the forward battle, which they did really well, or by running into the gap between our back rower and centre. He spent most of that first spell chasing the ball around. He also had very little chance to make any carries as he got no ball, look at the one pass he did receive, it was about an inch off the floor when it reached him and a foot behind him.

Mose isn't useless. His size attracts players in big numbers and even if he makes no gain, he's taking four men out of the line, which means the next play the ball has at least two recovering their position as the ball is played, which results in bigger metres there.

If KC isn't happy with his effort, he should give him longer on the field, rather than the pathetic spells he's getting currently. If he's genuinely not trying in those, don't pick him.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:36 pm  

Flanagan out of the 19, Wilkin in according to saints Twitter ... Strange one given Wilkin was supposed to be injured ...

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:20 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Might be experience, Cunningham is still a new coach. He's probably waiting for him to come alive and smash a few holes in the opposition. There's still plenty of people (like yourself) who defend Mose and Cumningham himself is Saints through & through & maybe could also have the Saints tinted glasses on?

Time is running out for Mose, thank god. He's about as much use as braille that says 'wet paint'.

I defend Mose when he deserves defending. He took a dog's abuse for much of last season. Yet he was the only guy who consistently turned out through the entire season. Admittedly, he wasn't in great shape early on. But he worked HARD at his weight and that alone isn't suggestive of a player who simply doesn't care. One thing's for sure - many an opposition pack shrank visibly the minute he entered the fray. It certainly made a refreshing change watching one of our players beating up on opponents - rather than the other way around.

As for this season - perhaps he hasn't been at his best form. But until I see something in print from an official source there's no reason to believe he isn't experiencing the usual fluctuations in form which affect just about all players.

I DO believe we aren't using him correctly. Ten minute spells are neither here nor there. Cunningham needs to be getting anywhere between fifteen and eighteen minutes per session. If he doesn't believe Mose is capable of such or refuses to apply himself then for heaven's sake - drop him.

Perhaps Cunningham is a little green. But if he's somehow lacking in self-confidence and belief then he's made a damned good fist of hiding it - throughout his career. Indeed, I can think of few players who knew what they wanted are were damned sure they were going to get it at such an early age. I find it incredibly difficult to believe Keiron is somehow afraid or hesitant to make tough decisions.

In any case - it's not like Cunningham is on his own. There are plenty of guys in the team who would have no problems getting on Mose's case if they believed he was letting the club down. The most obvious example is Wellens, who, whilst on the surface is an incredibly mild-mannered and affable character, is more than willing to blow a fuse should things take a direction for the worse.

Maybe there is a problem with Mose. I don't know. But I do know with strong-willed characters like Keiron and Wello about any sustained intransigence by a difficult player will almost certainly spill over into disharmony. But given the way Saints have continued to fight even facing an obvious defeat this is not suggestive of a club where players are at each others throats. As experienced watchers will know - the first thing that goes in such circumstances is the effort.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:29 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's not that simple. Mose is fitter than he's ever been at Saints and should be playing more minutes. He was forced to in one game earlier this season and did fine, having probably his best game for us. Last week he wasn't lazy, he just wasn't on the field. He had no impact in his first stint, but it wasn't his fault. He was looking for tackles, Leeds were avoiding him by throwing the ball around to bypass the forward battle, which they did really well, or by running into the gap between our back rower and centre. He spent most of that first spell chasing the ball around. He also had very little chance to make any carries as he got no ball, look at the one pass he did receive, it was about an inch off the floor when it reached him and a foot behind him.

Mose isn't useless. His size attracts players in big numbers and even if he makes no gain, he's taking four men out of the line, which means the next play the ball has at least two recovering their position as the ball is played, which results in bigger metres there.

I agree with most of this. One of the criticisms Mose receives pertains to the seemingly low number of carries he makes. But this statistic is very deceptive. Because teams are worried about Mose's size and power close to the line Saints very often use him either as a foil or a pivot. Consequently he's as much without the ball as he is with it.

Sometimes you can be a little too smart for your own good. Sometimes Rugby League really does boil down to - HULK SMASH.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:58 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's not that simple. Mose is fitter than he's ever been at Saints and should be playing more minutes. He was forced to in one game earlier this season and did fine, having probably his best game for us. Last week he wasn't lazy, he just wasn't on the field. He had no impact in his first stint, but it wasn't his fault. He was looking for tackles, Leeds were avoiding him by throwing the ball around to bypass the forward battle, which they did really well, or by running into the gap between our back rower and centre. He spent most of that first spell chasing the ball around. He also had very little chance to make any carries as he got no ball, look at the one pass he did receive, it was about an inch off the floor when it reached him and a foot behind him.

Mose isn't useless. His size attracts players in big numbers and even if he makes no gain, he's taking four men out of the line, which means the next play the ball has at least two recovering their position as the ball is played, which results in bigger metres there.

If KC isn't happy with his effort, he should give him longer on the field, rather than the pathetic spells he's getting currently. If he's genuinely not trying in those, don't pick him.

I,ve been saying this for quite a while now, we are not smart enough to use Mose in the correct way
Maybe KC is losing patience or perhaps frustrated in his non involvement so brings him off instead of getting instructions to him.
Now that Walshy is back maybe we will see some set plays with the big fella.