FORUMS FORUMS




   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Two Directors quit Saints
::[url=//saints.org.uk](Website)[/url]
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator21177
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 01 199926 years200th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Feb 25 13:512nd Feb 25 12:09LINK
Milestone Posts
20000
25000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
RLFANS HQ!
Signature
Administrator

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:11 pm  
WidnesExile wrote:
I very much doubt that - Especially as he has so much money invested in us.

Wrong, I remember the very moment at about 1am in Perpignan outside the irish bar Chatting to Eamonn and he said exactly "Once the new stadium is complete i'm handing over the reigns", I told him don't be so daft and that bringing in the stadium was just the beginning of the fun times.

I hope he stays around for a long time yet.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach525No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 14 200915 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Sep 15 13:507th Aug 15 11:03LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:24 pm  
Also, I'm pretty sure McManus isn't the biggest shareholder in the club too.
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner7605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 31 200321 years237th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th May 24 12:2516th May 24 12:25LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:06 pm  
Donkey OTay wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure McManus isn't the biggest shareholder in the club too.


True; Coleman's holding company (Crowther Street Holdings Ltd) is the biggest single share holder (45,000 out of 275,835) although the McManus family together hold about 79,000.

The two directors who have quit both have substantial shareholdings (Bell - 35,667 and Lyons 17,850). I would guess at one of two reasons for their quitting; either 1) they were co-opted onto the board to provide developemnt expertise during the delivery of the stadium project; or 2) they are going to cash in on their shares as they now have a value with the stadium asset and will look to sell them to McManus or Coleman (similar thing happened at Warrington at completion of their stadium project).

If you consider that between them they have enough shares to make somebody the biggest shareholder, although some way short of a majority shareholding, it'll be interesting if somebody fancied a punt at owning a stadium. Saints' company structure with many, many small shareholders is a throw back to the days of clubs being run by the local butcher, baker and candlestick-maker. Whether this is good or not for the club going forward I'm not sure. You can understand why McManus and Coleman converted debt into shares though as now between them they have more than a 50% holding and effectively protection from a "hostile" profit seeking take over of the club.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach2931No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 13 200520 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Sep 24 16:3625th Mar 17 01:11LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In Dire Straits
Signature
I HATE ALL THE PIES

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:53 pm  
Paul Youane wrote:
True; Coleman's holding company (Crowther Street Holdings Ltd) is the biggest single share holder (45,000 out of 275,835) although the McManus family together hold about 79,000.

The two directors who have quit both have substantial shareholdings (Bell - 35,667 and Lyons 17,850). I would guess at one of two reasons for their quitting; either 1) they were co-opted onto the board to provide developemnt expertise during the delivery of the stadium project; or 2) they are going to cash in on their shares as they now have a value with the stadium asset and will look to sell them to McManus or Coleman (similar thing happened at Warrington at completion of their stadium project).

If you consider that between them they have enough shares to make somebody the biggest shareholder, although some way short of a majority shareholding, it'll be interesting if somebody fancied a punt at owning a stadium. Saints' company structure with many, many small shareholders is a throw back to the days of clubs being run by the local butcher, baker and candlestick-maker. Whether this is good or not for the club going forward I'm not sure. You can understand why McManus and Coleman converted debt into shares though as now between them they have more than a 50% holding and effectively protection from a "hostile" profit seeking take over of the club.


Bell was issued with some extra 15,000 shares as recently as Dec 1st 2011 taking his shares upto 50,667 taking his share up to 15.2% of the total. Similarly Lyons took 10,000 more shares on the same date (now 8.3% of the total). The share capital is now 332,502 not the figure you state (sorry for being a pedant).
The extra shares were issues by way of conversion of their share of the £850,000 of total directors loans which were converted to shares; which makes their resignations all the more strange given that it all happened within two months of the close season.
Clearly something happened in those two months - the problem is that what happened is anything but clearly!

Obviously since resigning they may have sold the shares but in a closed company like this, it is not straight forward.

Sir Mac's (& family)stake is now down slightly to 23.7%. Coleman has 83,333 (25.0%) shares, so they control under 50% between them. However, Coleman has a large convertable loanstock which if fully converted would give him approx 39% of the total, which IMO is fair enough given the amount he has invested.
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner7605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 31 200321 years237th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th May 24 12:2516th May 24 12:25LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:30 am  
saint at wire wrote:
The share capital is now 332,502 not the figure you state (sorry for being a pedant).


With it being a "closed company" I presume that share transactions are private transactions between individuals rather than purchasing vis a stock exchange?

All the way through writing my post I was meaning to qualify that it was based upon the share register as at March 2011 and then forgot to. I was wondering whether the latest loans to shares conversion were pre or post that date.

If I had to put money on anything relating to this I'd back that they are probably too busy with other things to continue as active directors.

You do have to wonder whether the likes of these will one day want to see a return on their investment or whether it is just "written-off" cash for the good of a team they support.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator21177
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 01 199926 years200th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Feb 25 13:512nd Feb 25 12:09LINK
Milestone Posts
20000
25000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
RLFANS HQ!
Signature
Administrator

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:06 am  
'want' to see a return??

you don't buy into RL clubs to see a return.

You can "hope" you get your money back.... at best...... lol
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach525No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 14 200915 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Sep 15 13:507th Aug 15 11:03LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:02 am  
Is it possible to estimate a price of one share from that? I know you can't go in and just buy a share, but I'm just curious.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator21177
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 01 199926 years200th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Feb 25 13:512nd Feb 25 12:09LINK
Milestone Posts
20000
25000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
RLFANS HQ!
Signature
Administrator

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:27 am  
Donkey OTay wrote:
Is it possible to estimate a price of one share from that? I know you can't go in and just buy a share, but I'm just curious.


The price of a share is the amount you find someone willing to pay for it, you have to buy 20 minimum I think now.

There is no specific set price. I guess in theory you could take the assets of the club negating the debts owed and divide that amount by the amount of shares there are to get a ball park of what you will need to pay, but really..................
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach12189No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 29 200718 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
8th Jun 17 21:0629th May 17 09:59LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
where ever i am

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:17 pm  
Sadfish wrote:
The price of a share is the amount you find someone willing to pay for it, you have to buy 20 minimum I think now.

There is no specific set price. I guess in theory you could take the assets of the club negating the debts owed and divide that amount by the amount of shares there are to get a ball park of what you will need to pay, but really..................

back in the day when there were 15000 shares and it only took 100 to be a director (not sure if that has changed) My mum was offered £1000 for each one of what are now my 100 shares!
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator21177
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 01 199926 years200th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Feb 25 13:512nd Feb 25 12:09LINK
Milestone Posts
20000
25000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
RLFANS HQ!
Signature
Administrator

Re: Two Directors quit Saints : Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:19 pm  
Saint Simon wrote:
back in the day when there were 15000 shares and it only took 100 to be a director (not sure if that has changed) My mum was offered £1000 for each one of what are now my 100 shares!


Yes I think it's still true, but its all co-opting now, totally out of reach of the people with less than 5 figures of shares and 7 figures in the bank.

It is possible that you are actually related to me. ;)

I think I have a relation with 101 shares.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to St. Helens


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Goal kicker
karetaker
4
2m
HJ spruce-up
karetaker
25
4m
Film game
karetaker
7277
5m
BORED The Band Name Game
karetaker
64481
18m
A look behind the scenes at Warringtons preseason
ratticusfinc
3
29m
Rumours and signings v9
Stu M
29179
33m
Transfer Talk V5
Rixy
809
36m
Wigan TV down
Phuzzy
21
41m
Can we compare
Trojan Horse
5
43m
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41502
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
ComeOnYouUll
4839
Recent
Super League
Big lads mat
95
Recent
Challenge Cup - York Acorn
Irregs#16
23
Recent
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Mark_P1973
3125
Recent
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Whitehaven CC
Wire Weaver
4
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41502
1s
Ground Improvements
Khlav Kalash
356
4s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
ComeOnYouUll
4839
4s
HJ spruce-up
karetaker
25
5s
Rumours and signings v9
Stu M
29179
6s
Goal kicker
karetaker
4
9s
Film game
karetaker
7277
10s
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
3022
25s
Wigan TV down
Phuzzy
21
27s
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Mark_P1973
3125
29s
Super League
Big lads mat
95
35s
Challenge Cup - York Acorn
Irregs#16
23
40s
Pre Season - 2025
The Dentist
499
50s
Transfer Talk V5
Rixy
809
52s
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Whitehaven CC
Wire Weaver
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Can we compare
Trojan Horse
5
TODAY
Goal kicker
karetaker
4
TODAY
A look behind the scenes at Warringtons preseason
ratticusfinc
3
TODAY
Cas H
Pyrah123
22
TODAY
Fantasy Rugby League
Ashton Bears
1
TODAY
New Captain
The Speculat
7
TODAY
Flexi games package
FlyingScotty
3
TODAY
Challenge Cup - York Acorn
Irregs#16
23
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Whitehaven CC
Wire Weaver
4
TODAY
Thirteen Try York Knights Set Up Hull KR Cup Clash
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Catalans again
hooligan27
4
TODAY
London Broncos Jacket for sale circa year 2000
Sadfish
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
223
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1029
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
828
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
926
Thatto Heath Hold On To Set Up..
1103
Army Beat The RAF In Challenge..
1096
Waterhead Warriors Golden Poin..
1162
Four From Rugby League Honoure..
1619
Leeds Rhinos Beat Wakefield Tr..
2412
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of..
2489
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons..
2258
New Roles for HULL KR...
2208
Jet2 has signed a major sponso..
2354
Thirkill and Hood complete Hul..
2523
Captains Challenge for Televis..
2544
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Fri 7th Feb
CC2025
19:30
York-Hull KR
Sun 9th Feb
CC2025
13:00
Bradford-Castleford
CC2025
15:00
Halifax-Catalans
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Feb
CC2025 2 Keighley12-72York
1895 0 Midlands52-24Whitehaven
1895 0 Newcastle0-60Crusaders
Sat 1st Feb
1895 0 Rochdale64-12Cornwall
Sun 26th Jan
CC2025 2 Bradford30-4Doncaster
CC2025 2 Barrow86-6Cros
CC2025 2 BlackB12-34Ince R
CC2025 2 Cornwall0-52Crusaders
CC2025 2 Halifax48-6Thatto Heath
CC2025 2 Midlands46-0Siddal
CC2025 2 Newcastle0-54Batley
CC2025 2 Oldham60-10Rochdale M
CC2025 2 Rochdale16-34Widnes
CC2025 2 Royal Navy0-56Workington
CC2025 2 Sheffield62-0W BOWL
Sat 25th Jan
CC2025 2 LondonB10-17Goole V
CC2025 2 DewM6-50Dewsbury
CC2025 2 York A22-2OultonR
CC2025 2 HUN A18-24West Hull
CC2025 2 Lock L10-50Hunslet
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Goal kicker
karetaker
4
2m
HJ spruce-up
karetaker
25
4m
Film game
karetaker
7277
5m
BORED The Band Name Game
karetaker
64481
18m
A look behind the scenes at Warringtons preseason
ratticusfinc
3
29m
Rumours and signings v9
Stu M
29179
33m
Transfer Talk V5
Rixy
809
36m
Wigan TV down
Phuzzy
21
41m
Can we compare
Trojan Horse
5
43m
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41502
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
ComeOnYouUll
4839
Recent
Super League
Big lads mat
95
Recent
Challenge Cup - York Acorn
Irregs#16
23
Recent
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Mark_P1973
3125
Recent
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Whitehaven CC
Wire Weaver
4
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41502
1s
Ground Improvements
Khlav Kalash
356
4s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
ComeOnYouUll
4839
4s
HJ spruce-up
karetaker
25
5s
Rumours and signings v9
Stu M
29179
6s
Goal kicker
karetaker
4
9s
Film game
karetaker
7277
10s
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
3022
25s
Wigan TV down
Phuzzy
21
27s
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Mark_P1973
3125
29s
Super League
Big lads mat
95
35s
Challenge Cup - York Acorn
Irregs#16
23
40s
Pre Season - 2025
The Dentist
499
50s
Transfer Talk V5
Rixy
809
52s
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Whitehaven CC
Wire Weaver
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Can we compare
Trojan Horse
5
TODAY
Goal kicker
karetaker
4
TODAY
A look behind the scenes at Warringtons preseason
ratticusfinc
3
TODAY
Cas H
Pyrah123
22
TODAY
Fantasy Rugby League
Ashton Bears
1
TODAY
New Captain
The Speculat
7
TODAY
Flexi games package
FlyingScotty
3
TODAY
Challenge Cup - York Acorn
Irregs#16
23
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Whitehaven CC
Wire Weaver
4
TODAY
Thirteen Try York Knights Set Up Hull KR Cup Clash
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Catalans again
hooligan27
4
TODAY
London Broncos Jacket for sale circa year 2000
Sadfish
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
223
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1029
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
828
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
926
Thatto Heath Hold On To Set Up..
1103
Army Beat The RAF In Challenge..
1096
Waterhead Warriors Golden Poin..
1162
Four From Rugby League Honoure..
1619
Leeds Rhinos Beat Wakefield Tr..
2412
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of..
2489
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons..
2258
New Roles for HULL KR...
2208
Jet2 has signed a major sponso..
2354
Thirkill and Hood complete Hul..
2523
Captains Challenge for Televis..
2544


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!