: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:07 pm  

General Zod. wrote:

Put him outside an run of the mill SL centre and he'll be exposed what he is.

Gareth Raynor but taller?

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:53 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Gareth Raynor but taller?

As a Hull KR fan I have a particular distain for all things Hull FC but Raynor is in a different class to Gardner in almost every respect.

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:13 pm  

General Zod. wrote:

As a Hull KR fan I have a particular distain for all things Hull FC but Raynor is in a different class to Gardner in almost every respect.

Steady on. You could say he might be better and make an argument for that but different class? Are you havin' a laff? Is he havin' a laff?

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:15 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Steady on. You could say he might be better and make an argument for that but different class? Are you havin' a laff? Is he havin' a laff?

I think he must be.

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:50 pm  

trys'r'us wrote:

Gardner's pretty decent with the ball, making decent ground and being a good finisher. His work-rate isn't quite what it could be, but he's generally fine ball in hand. His major problems are in defence, where he's still extremely jumpy, coming in when it isn't needed. It's been a big problem in his game for a while and it doesn't look to have improved recently (up to the WC at least. Seeing him in one game against Wire isn't really enough to make a call on for this season).

I love it when a fan of another club comes on and describes our own player. In the what...maybe 10 games a year that you get the chance to see Saints, how do you manage to spot these obvious problems in his game which Saints speccies (who watch pretty much every Saints game) don't see ?

Can anybody remember the last time Gardner looked a mess defensively ? I certainly can't, in fact I can't think of a better SL winger at defending his flank and supporting his centre defensively. The decision making of Gardner defensively is one of his strongest qualities.

trys'r'us wrote:

Raynor's only really weakness is his lack of height, which means he can be beaten to a high ball when he's got a standing start against an opponent with a running jump. In pretty much every other area he's good at worst. He does a huge amount of work bringing the ball out during exit sets, something he's unmatched in in SL, with a great offload, top class footwork and the ability to get through a tackler to find a good position and a quick play if he can't get an offload away. As a finisher, he's at least as good as Gardner and his kick-chase game is great as well. Defensively, he's a strong tackler and generally makes the right decision when there is a decision to be made.

Raynor is so awesome that he doesn't even run forward. If I wanted to watch a crab, I'd visit the beach. There is no way Raynor is a better winger defensively than Gardner either, not a cat in hells chance. He's quicker than Gardner and that is about it (plus he's better at going sideways, I think Raynor is pretty much the best sideways runner in International RL).

trys'r'us wrote:

If Gardner could sort his decision making out, he'd be up there. Currently, though, Raynor's comfortably the best British winger (assuming he hasn't lost anything when he returns to fitness).

Gardner could never be 'right up there' because he is too slow for a winger. However, in terms of British wingmen, there is absolutely no competition for Gardner, none at all.

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:58 pm  

St.Rhianna wrote:

The arrow from barrow is the best winger in Super League

Two Posts In And Already A Laughing Stock!...

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:00 pm  

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

I love it when a fan of another club comes on and describes our own player. In the what...maybe 10 games a year that you get the chance to see Saints, how do you manage to spot these obvious problems in his game which Saints speccies (who watch pretty much every Saints game) don't see ?

Can anybody remember the last time Gardner looked a mess defensively ? I certainly can't, in fact I can't think of a better SL winger at defending his flank and supporting his centre defensively. The decision making of Gardner defensively is one of his strongest qualities.



Raynor is so awesome that he doesn't even run forward. If I wanted to watch a crab, I'd visit the beach. There is no way Raynor is a better winger defensively than Gardner either, not a cat in hells chance. He's quicker than Gardner and that is about it (plus he's better at going sideways, I think Raynor is pretty much the best sideways runner in International RL).



Gardner could never be 'right up there' because he is too slow for a winger. However, in terms of British wingmen, there is absolutely no competition for Gardner, none at all.

Do you talk b@ll@cks all the time or do you have a day off, you spout some absolute garbage. Gardner scores the amount of trys he does because he's got the best centre in the comp inside of him and when he doesn't he looks average at best look at the world cup, when he was absolute pants

: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:13 pm  

willowred wrote:

Do you talk b@ll@cks all the time or do you have a day off, you spout some absolute garbage. Gardner scores the amount of trys he does because he's got the best centre in the comp inside of him and when he doesn't he looks average at best look at the world cup, when he was absolute pants

Oh christ, it must the asylum day out....

Can you highlight where in my post I have discussed the try scoring exploits of Gardner ?

You see, when you read the post (and engage your brain) you will grasp that it is discussing the defensive choices Gardner makes.

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:11 am  

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

I love it when a fan of another club comes on and describes our own player. In the what...maybe 10 games a year that you get the chance to see Saints, how do you manage to spot these obvious problems in his game which Saints speccies (who watch pretty much every Saints game) don't see ?

Can anybody remember the last time Gardner looked a mess defensively ? I certainly can't, in fact I can't think of a better SL winger at defending his flank and supporting his centre defensively. The decision making of Gardner defensively is one of his strongest qualities.

The most recent and most glaring example I can give you is his performance in the WC. There have been plenty of other incidents throughout his career though. And not so much 'a mess', more coming in, biting on a wedge or coming in to double up on an opposing centre, leaving a gap on the outside. He can tackle, I haven't questioned that. His decision making is not very good though.

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

Raynor is so awesome that he doesn't even run forward. If I wanted to watch a crab, I'd visit the beach. There is no way Raynor is a better winger defensively than Gardner either, not a cat in hells chance. He's quicker than Gardner and that is about it (plus he's better at going sideways, I think Raynor is pretty much the best sideways runner in International RL).

That pretty much ends any chance of a decent debate. If you think that he only runs sideways (you clearly don't, do you? If you did, you'd probably be shocked to learn that their metres per game and metres per carry were pretty similar last year, despite Gardner being in a team that creates many more opportunities, and him being on the wing that profits most from that) there's not much point continuing as it would mean that you know next to nothing about the game. It would be amazing that someone who only runs sideways could manage so often to get his arms through the tackle to offload or that he could bust so many tackles. Plus it would mean that, rather than the actual situation which involves him making extremely valuable and helpful-to-the-team ground away from our line, he be constantly pushed back into the in-goal area when scooting during exit sets. That doesn't happen either though, does it?

And defensively, he very rarely makes the wrong choice (it happens sometimes, but even the best wingers do it occasionally as their natural instinct to stop the ball getting to the outside comes into play) and almost invariably completes the tackle after making that choice.

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

Gardner could never be 'right up there' because he is too slow for a winger. However, in terms of British wingmen, there is absolutely no competition for Gardner, none at all.

'Right up there' in terms of being one of the best British wingers. As it is, he falls just short of the top two or three due to his defensive failings. It is something that can be improved though and he just needs coaching away from his natural instinct.

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:02 am  

raynor
fox
smith
calderwood

all better than gardner.

and when pryce gets fit he'll be better than him as well.