Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:37 am  

I'm kind of glad this issue has coincided with the Paul Wellens thread because it brings into focus those attributes which are rarely prized - if recognised at all - by fans - character, loyalty, courage etc.

I'm not one of these people who think players should be grateful for anything and everything a club offers them.

But does anyone here believe that Wellens would have even dreamed of walking away from the club that gave him an opportunity BEFORE he'd had the chance to prove himself?

Players have all sorts of reasons for playing the game - and that's fine. Ultimately it's about freedom of choice and that's a good thing.

But let's not forget that Wellens, who wasn't born with a tenth of the physical gifts Sav possesses, became what he was because he simply refused to compromise on his commitment to the cause.

If Sav is going you can be damned sure he won't feel comfortable about looking Wello in the eye any time soon. Paul is too much of a gentleman to say anything in public. But in private he'll be absolutely SEETHING.

If a player chooses to place money at the top of his priorities - fine. That's his prerogative. That's his BUSINESS. But until proven otherwise every player around him who aspires to higher ideals will stamp a big red question mark mentally next to his name.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:51 am  

Mugwump wrote:

If Warrington sign Savelio it will be at an inflated cost for a player who still hasn't locked down a first team jersey. Bear in mind that this is a player who is still RECOVERING from a debilitating physical and psychological ailment, the ramifications of which are UNKNOWN. Throw in the fact that he's marking time for the NRL and it's a no-brainer.

This could be the case, for me he still needs another full season to indicate that his high potential is going to be there, his agent ain,t going to expose any negatives and could be valued high before he has reached expectation. Its a tricky one for Saints, do they put big money on a player with no 100% guarantee return.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:29 pm  

Forgot to mention: Anyone who has any kind of connection to the club knew Sav was likely leaving. It's been an open secret for some time.

But throughout the mantra has been consistent, "Andre desperately wants to play in the NRL and his agent is attempting to find him a slot somewhere".

I can't say I was happy about him going down under. Like Burgess at Wigan I think it's too early in his career to make such a move. But if that's what he has his heart set on then good luck to the kid.

But if the rumour is true then Andre was lying. Period.

I don't care how much talent Savelio has - if you can't trust the guy then who's to say he won't take off six months into a big contract leaving the club high and dry? You can't blame the club for exercising restraint after the Eastmond debacle.

At some point you've got to draw the line in the sand. If Warrington are crazy enough to throw big money at someone who has no loyalty whatsoever and is demonstrably willing to engage in duplicity then I'm sure it won't be long before they find themselves the victim of another ruse.

I mean, I had a lot of sympathy for Lee Gaskell and even Jamie Foster. I STILL think Gaskell could have been handled better.

But don't ask me to railroad the club over not pandering to a player if his actions show no respect for it.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:33 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I'm kind of glad this issue has coincided with the Paul Wellens thread because it brings into focus those attributes which are rarely prized - if recognised at all - by fans - character, loyalty, courage etc.

I'm not one of these people who think players should be grateful for anything and everything a club offers them.

But does anyone here believe that Wellens would have even dreamed of walking away from the club that gave him an opportunity BEFORE he'd had the chance to prove himself?

Players have all sorts of reasons for playing the game - and that's fine. Ultimately it's about freedom of choice and that's a good thing.

But let's not forget that Wellens, who wasn't born with a tenth of the physical gifts Sav possesses, became what he was because he simply refused to compromise on his commitment to the cause.

If Sav is going you can be damned sure he won't feel comfortable about looking Wello in the eye any time soon. Paul is too much of a gentleman to say anything in public. But in private he'll be absolutely SEETHING.

If a player chooses to place money at the top of his priorities - fine. That's his prerogative. That's his BUSINESS. But until proven otherwise every player around him who aspires to higher ideals will stamp a big red question mark mentally next to his name.

Comparing him to Wello, who had been with Saints all his life and is from St Helens is off. Savelio was with Warrington, moved to Saints because of his ambition to develop and learn and he's done that. He is now performing consistently well when he's picked (Have you ever seen him have a bad game?). If Saints aren't rewarding that with anything like the offer from another club, why should he stay?

Either way, I don't see how you can claim it's a good move to lose our best forward and receive nothing for him. You don't see Warrington, Leeds, Wigan losing young players to rival clubs and not being paid.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:34 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

But don't ask me to railroad the club over not pandering to a player if his actions show no respect for it.

No one has asked you to. And you are assuming that just as much as I'm assuming we're just being tight with offers to save money.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:39 pm  

You'd maybe understand if he is getting no game time whatsoever and it was Leeds or Wigan that wanted him; you know, a club that stands a chance of winning a trophy, but to join Warrington? It must be pure greed, because they sure as sh*t won't win a trophy in his time with them.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:01 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

No one has asked you to. And you are assuming that just as much as I'm assuming we're just being tight with offers to save money.

There's a middle ground, though. Sav looks very promising, but is as yet fairly unproven. A decent deal with a realistic NRL transfer fee clause would seem sensible.

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:03 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I should say that I once attempted to pin Jon Wilkin (in his official capacity as head of the players union) down on the question of agents playing not only the NRL off against SL, but RU, too.

He handled the question the same way one might deal with a barrel full of radioactive waste spewing deadly fission products in all directions.

I find that's usually the best way to deal with your questions too

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:17 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

our best forward

??

Re: Andre Savelio : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:22 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Comparing him to Wello, who had been with Saints all his life and is from St Helens is off. Savelio was with Warrington, moved to Saints because of his ambition to develop and learn and he's done that. He is now performing consistently well when he's picked (Have you ever seen him have a bad game?). If Saints aren't rewarding that with anything like the offer from another club, why should he stay?

This is a total misrepresentation. For several months now Savelio has not signed because he "wants to play in the NRL". Saints not paying him what he thinks he is worth has never been mentioned.

If Savelio was unhappy with the salary Saints proposed he had every opportunity to say so. He hasn't to anyone I know he's passed his NRL love onto. What's more - there' been no attempt to roll back from the commitment to the NRL.

Which means a Warrington contract is the product of outright deceit. According to him he has no interest in playing SL.

Either way, I don't see how you can claim it's a good move to lose our best forward and receive nothing for him. You don't see Warrington, Leeds, Wigan losing young players to rival clubs and not being paid.

First, Savelio is NOT our best forward. He's not our second-best forward. He's not our third best forward. He's a very promising youngster who has looked good in the LIMITED opportunities he's had. In NO WAY does this make him anything like your over-blown portrayal. Not yet, anyhow.

Second, I find it hard to believe that this board's resident Pandora finds it inconceivable that a player who is willing to string his club along with a fictitious rationale whilst negotiating against them will do so again (with far greater consequences).

Let's say Saints upped their offer and Savelio decided to stay. Are you so stupid to think this will be the end of it? It's one thing to have a dream of going to Australia and making it happen. No one would ever hold that against him. But lying to the club? His teammates? Conducting back-channel negotiations to a club Saints' believe aren't even in the running? If ever there was an issue which is bound to spill over into the dressing room (in multiple very unpleasant ways - all of which can take root like a damned cancer) this is it.

Seriously, I can't believe I even need to explain this. It's ABC stuff.