: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:23 am
trys'r'us wrote:
The most recent and most glaring example I can give you is his performance in the WC. There have been plenty of other incidents throughout his career though. And not so much 'a mess', more coming in, biting on a wedge or coming in to double up on an opposing centre, leaving a gap on the outside. He can tackle, I haven't questioned that. His decision making is not very good though.
When during the WC specifically can you highlight? This is bearing in mind that during the WC, England as a whole squad looked rubbish due to the superiority of their opponents. The likes of Lockyer and co have the ability to isolate top quality NRL wingmen every week. It is hardly surprising they can do the same to a SL winger. With the exception of the WC, you are refering back to the Gardner of at least 2 years ago, which I refuse to accept as an argument.
trys'r'us wrote:
That pretty much ends any chance of a decent debate. If you think that he only runs sideways (you clearly don't, do you? If you did, you'd probably be shocked to learn that their metres per game and metres per carry were pretty similar last year, despite Gardner being in a team that creates many more opportunities, and him being on the wing that profits most from that) there's not much point continuing as it would mean that you know next to nothing about the game. It would be amazing that someone who only runs sideways could manage so often to get his arms through the tackle to offload or that he could bust so many tackles. Plus it would mean that, rather than the actual situation which involves him making extremely valuable and helpful-to-the-team ground away from our line, he be constantly pushed back into the in-goal area when scooting during exit sets. That doesn't happen either though, does it?
So we are discounting the fact that Gardner and Raynor have fairly equal stats purely on the basis that one is at Hull and one at Saints? Have you ever thought there may be a reason in that? Gardner profits mainly from his centre in the last 10 metres of the field. If anybody had the nous to actually watch Saints and not listen to the balls the Sky team say, they would realise that Saints rarely look to isolate the winger except when within 10-15 metres of the tryline (and occasionally from deep in our own 20). This leaves Gardner with basically his chances to finish off in the corner, which he is very good at and his chances to support the pack with scoots from dummy half, which he is very good at also.
As always with Gardner, his stats and performances are to discarded by all because he has a very good centre inside him apparently, yet Raynors not because he has the misfortune to play in a garbage side.
trys'r'us wrote:
And defensively, he very rarely makes the wrong choice (it happens sometimes, but even the best wingers do it occasionally as their natural instinct to stop the ball getting to the outside comes into play) and almost invariably completes the tackle after making that choice.
It gets better!!!!
Raynor is justified in his odd cock up as 'it happens' yet Gardner isn't?
Am I supposed to have a real debate with you when it is evident that you are simply another biased, one eyed fan (although with the ability to type better than most)?
trys'r'us wrote:
'Right up there' in terms of being one of the best British wingers. As it is, he falls just short of the top two or three due to his defensive failings. It is something that can be improved though and he just needs coaching away from his natural instinct.
Gardner and defensive failings could only be mentioned in the same sentence by someone who hasn't bothered to watch him and is still basing an opinion on performances from 2/3 years ago,
Go and watch some tape of the SL performances of Gardner from the past 2 years and come back. Forget the WC, all that proved is that every single British RL player is overrated beyond belief and not a match for their NRL counterparts (unless they play for Hull I assume).
Last year he scored 2 tries and Gardner scored 26 and yet Calderwood is a better player.
