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Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:03 pm  
LFC Saint wrote:
The reason why it'd be different is because the likes of Bateman, Tomkins, Clubb and Farrell would of made sure the Rabbitohs knew they was in for a tough game.

I love our club but i feel embarrassed after tonight and feel we have let Super League down massively. Wigan and Wire fans have the right to laugh at us after tonight.


As a Warrington fan, I can certainly say I am in no position to laugh. Souths were comfortably the best NRL side on show this weekend. Brutally effecient is the way I would describe Souths.

I would question whether either of Warringon or Wigan would have breached that defence.
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Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:29 pm  
"Honest" Tony Clubb spent most of the time on his back with the footprints of Brisbane's front row up his jersey.

Bateman discovered that against big packs quick feet don't make many yards when your body is made out of compressed duck feathers.

Farrell is too small. Always will be. Sure he's a handful against weak edge defences in SL. But in front of Australian opposition (both in the internationals and against Brisbane) he was totally neutralised. Even worse - when he came inside he couldn't break the advantage line.

Tomkins is ok. But in the centre?
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Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:43 pm  
Mugwump wrote:
On the question of backs. I'm not particularly concerned right now. Percival is a young kid learning his trade and he'll improve a lot. Turner was moved to all manner of positions last season as cover and it didn't surprise me that he was caught out. Swift is only occupying the wing position until he gets an opportunity to move inside where I reckon he'll be far more effective. Lomax probably needed reminding about the rules of the game given the amount of time he spent out last season and Makinson is perfectly fine.

This Saints team is weighted primarily in favour of the forwards. And that's OK by me because tough go-forward packs win SL titles. If other teams want to spend big on strike centres or speedy wingers that's super. I'm sure they'll see some great tries on their way out of the competition.

That said - I do think we are a little short-handed in the back division. We certainly need to look at bringing through another winger from the juniors.


Swift is only occupying the wing position until he gets an opportunity to move inside where I reckon he'll be far more effective.

What position will that be? Boot cleaner and kit washer maybe.
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Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:54 pm  
Give the kid a break. He's done well in a position he's not suited to. It's not like he'll face Souths every week.
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Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:56 pm  
Swift was the only player to make over 100m against Souths.

I think he's a better winger than Makinson was at his age.
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Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:02 pm  
He's quicker off the mark than Makinson. More elusive, too.

But Makinson seems faster over the longer distance. Tommy's a better defender (both under the high ball and in the tackle), finisher and he's also reliable at full back.

To be honest, I thought Tommy was a goner the season before last. I just didn't think he was big enough. It's still a problem. But it's been offset by his finishing which is peerless.
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Re: Reality check : Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:01 am  
There are a couple of things SL sides can do much better that don't need better athletes etc. One is cut down the errors. It really makes me cringe at times watching SL sides or the national team against the Aussies, because the error rate is dreadful. The stats might not show it, but its the unforced errors that are the biggest problem (particularly dropping the ball on contact) and the position on the field when it happens. Its not by accident that time and again our teams cough the ball up close to our own line but the Aussies don't. its because its punished ruthlessly in the NRL, and simply isn't in SL. But even with that, all clubs and players could do better with hard work.

Another is the kicking game. A full time pro halfback ought to be able to do far better than aimlessly kick the ball into the full backs arms every time, or make aimless attacking kicks (also requires the outside backs to train more as well but you get my point). Do SL halfbacks not train at this?

It should be remembered that Souths revamped their entire threequarter line last year. In 2013 they had a big pack, Greg Inglis and Reynolds' kicking game. Last year most of the 2-5 was new - big, strong and (Tuqiri apart) quick). Because when it came to the crunch in 2013 they simply didn't have enough points in them (and in fact the Dogs team they faced in the final had exactly the same problem out wide). As has been said, the chances are they'll lose more players over the next couple of years as the young backs demand pay rises. But they were no more dominant last year than the Roosters the year before.

I'd also add that if anything people here claim that the NRL is more robotic than ever. What you see with Souths cutting loose is that the robotic play actually enables the off the cuff play to be more effective, as the supposedly "robotic" players have the ability to time and make passes under pressure more reliably than otherwise.
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Re: Reality check : Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:31 am  
Mugwump wrote:
He's quicker off the mark than Makinson. More elusive, too.

But Makinson seems faster over the longer distance. Tommy's a better defender (both under the high ball and in the tackle), finisher and he's also reliable at full back.

To be honest, I thought Tommy was a goner the season before last. I just didn't think he was big enough. It's still a problem. But it's been offset by his finishing which is peerless.


Tommy has been given 3 years to develop an edge to his game. Don't get me wrong, Tommy M has grabbed the opportunity with both hands and is one of the top 5 wingers in the country now, and certainly the best finisher, but I think people forget he spent years being drip fed into the team as he developed, I think it would be foolish to not grant the same to Swift. His defence has already improved beyond recognition from this time last year, and I think he'll really benefit from being outside Turner this year.

He's prone to a silly mistake once a game at the moment which he needs to work on cutting out. But I wouldn't want us wasting cap space to replace him just yet.
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Re: Reality check : Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:02 am  
Magic Superbeetle wrote:
Swift was the only player to make over 100m against Souths.

I think he's a better winger than Makinson was at his age.


He's a better winger than tommy with the ball at this current time. Tommy looked way out his depth against Souths with the ball.
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Re: Reality check : Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:23 am  
Mugwump wrote:
"Honest" Tony Clubb spent most of the time on his back with the footprints of Brisbane's front row up his jersey.

Bateman discovered that against big packs quick feet don't make many yards when your body is made out of compressed duck feathers.

Farrell is too small. Always will be. Sure he's a handful against weak edge defences in SL. But in front of Australian opposition (both in the internationals and against Brisbane) he was totally neutralised. Even worse - when he came inside he couldn't break the advantage line.

Tomkins is ok. But in the centre?


Bateman made 160 metres and 60 tackles in the game

Faz around 150 metres and 40+ tackles

Clubb 128 metres and 28 tackles

Joel Tomkins made only 80 metres in comparison.

We made too many errors but our go forward was fine apart from a couple of the props.
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