: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:28 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Resorting to childish insults already?

Its nice to see you think I'm a muppet when it is distinctly obvious you didn't read my post properly and we both know that so now you are trying to cover it up by taking what I said out of context

The only thing I said was he wouldn't do as well as Ellis and that is my opinion and I think quite a few people would agree so if that is 'not showing an ounce of brains' then I do apologize

I actuallly happen to think Graham is a really good player (as much as it pains me to admit it to people like you) and I do think he could handle it if he went to the NRL but I don't think he would do as well as Ellis will. If you disagree with me thats fine, I couldn't really care less if you agree or not.

I apologise but generally your post leads me to this obvious conclusion although admittedly, the above places you in a better light. You suggested Fielden could have gone well there with Peacock for heavens sake.

Explain to me how you consider a prop forward wouldn't do as well as a second row forward in the NRL ? If Ellis was a top back rower over here and Graham is a top front rower over here, how do you conclude that their performance over there would differ ? What differs between the 2 to say one would go better ? How do you come to your conclusion ? Possibly that one is a Saints player and the other wasn't ?

Graham captained an England youth side to a series victory in Australia and as I have stated earlier, a top NRL and International prop put Graham as the top prop on the planet. His stats back up his consistency in the all round game and he has carried Saints on his own at times. He is the top metre maker in possibly the top side in the competition. I would worry about how we would go without the guy to be honest.

How do you conclude Ellis will do so well over there after approx 3 matches as well ? Still very early days yet.

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:29 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Yeah, but isn't that just because he's at Saints. He's just an average player that's got a good team round him, that's all really.

Ah yes, the old list

Wellens - Carthorse, slow, past it
Gardner - Over-rated, rubbish, can't catch
Gidley - Possibly the only one any good, but old and past it
Gilmour - Never a centre
Meli - Nuff said
Pryce - Off to get bummed in the showers, and didn't show up for the world cup
Long - past it, show pony, needs a hair cut
Graham - Ginger, scouse, only good because of the other players
The King - Past it
Hargreaves - Wigan reject, only good because of the other players
Wilkin - show pony, not big enough, good enough
Puletua - Over-rated, over the hill, over here
Flannery - Who?

Roby - One trick pony
Fa'asavalu - Past it
Clough - not good enough
Cayless - Crock

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:45 pm  

thats quite good but what about all our overrated kids?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:00 pm  

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

I apologise but generally your post leads me to this obvious conclusion although admittedly, the above places you in a better light. You suggested Fielden could have gone well there with Peacock for heavens sake.

Explain to me how you consider a prop forward wouldn't do as well as a second row forward in the NRL ? If Ellis was a top back rower over here and Graham is a top front rower over here, how do you conclude that their performance over there would differ ? What differs between the 2 to say one would go better ? How do you come to your conclusion ? Possibly that one is a Saints player and the other wasn't ?

Graham captained an England youth side to a series victory in Australia and as I have stated earlier, a top NRL and International prop put Graham as the top prop on the planet. His stats back up his consistency in the all round game and he has carried Saints on his own at times. He is the top metre maker in possibly the top side in the competition. I would worry about how we would go without the guy to be honest.

How do you conclude Ellis will do so well over there after approx 3 matches as well ? Still very early days yet.

Only a couple questions then?

Right well, Fielden at his prime was the best forward in the world so I don't really need to say much more as to why I think he would of been alright down under. I should of said Peacock at his best and I only said he could probably make it. I think JP is a fantastic player and would have gone alright down there.

I don't think the position of the 2 players really affects how well they would do really. The things that seperate them? I think Ellis has more experience and controls his temper better. Graham tends to show when things get to him and can lose his rag a bit. Ellis doesn't do this and would focus his agression better. He was definitely the best back rower in super league (by a long way) and IMO he was also the best forward in super league. You can throw all the stats you want at me but I don't think they show the full picture. As for him being a Saints player, I already admitted I thought he was a really good player (you wouldn't get that out of a lot of opposing fans) and Ellis is an ex Leeds player and everyone hates Leeds Ellis has recieved a lot of praise after his first 3 games down under and its not like the Aussies to praise a pommey for nothing so that shows he must be good. As for Steve Price giving him praise, it is deserved, not too sure I agree with him as I think he was/is the best prop in world rugby. That enough for ya?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:08 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Right well, Fielden at his prime was the best forward in the world so I don't really need to say much more as to why I think he would of been alright down under. I should of said Peacock at his best and I only said he could probably make it. I think JP is a fantastic player and would have gone alright down there.

I would suggest both Peacock and Graham are better players now than Fielden has ever been, even at his best.

kirkamania6 wrote:

I don't think the position of the 2 players really affects how well they would do really. The things that seperate them? I think Ellis has more experience and controls his temper better. Graham tends to show when things get to him and can lose his rag a bit. Ellis doesn't do this and would focus his agression better. He was definitely the best back rower in super league (by a long way) and IMO he was also the best forward in super league. You can throw all the stats you want at me but I don't think they show the full picture. As for him being a Saints player, I already admitted I thought he was a really good player (you wouldn't get that out of a lot of opposing fans) and Ellis is an ex Leeds player and everyone hates Leeds Ellis has recieved a lot of praise after his first 3 games down under and its not like the Aussies to praise a pommey for nothing so that shows he must be good. As for Steve Price giving him praise, it is deserved, not too sure I agree with him as I think he was/is the best prop in world rugby. That enough for ya?

For me the very fact that the stats show Graham as consistently the top metre maker every single week suggest he controls and directs his aggression superbly.

I think Graham and the majority of British forwards are more than capable of performing well in the NRL. Its the backs where we couldn't send any and expect them to perform well IMO.

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:23 pm  

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

I would suggest both Peacock and Graham are better players now than Fielden has ever been, even at his best.



For me the very fact that the stats show Graham as consistently the top metre maker every single week suggest he controls and directs his aggression superbly.

I think Graham and the majority of British forwards are more than capable of performing well in the NRL. Its the backs where we couldn't send any and expect them to perform well IMO.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Fielden then

I still think Ellis controls himself better and Graham has a lot to learn yet whereas Ellis is entering his prime and is England's best player (best back rower vs best front rower but I think Ellis stands out more in comparison to other back rowers than Graham does in comparison to front rowers- maybe down to strength in depth in the area though) Ellis seems to stand up more on the big occasion as well but again this is my opinion and I'm sure you will disagree

The backs are awful though

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:32 pm  

Stirlingshire Saint wrote:

I apologise but generally your post leads me to this obvious conclusion although admittedly, the above places you in a better light. You suggested Fielden could have gone well there with Peacock for heavens sake.

Explain to me how you consider a prop forward wouldn't do as well as a second row forward in the NRL ? If Ellis was a top back rower over here and Graham is a top front rower over here, how do you conclude that their performance over there would differ ? What differs between the 2 to say one would go better ? How do you come to your conclusion ? Possibly that one is a Saints player and the other wasn't ?

Graham captained an England youth side to a series victory in Australia and as I have stated earlier, a top NRL and International prop put Graham as the top prop on the planet. His stats back up his consistency in the all round game and he has carried Saints on his own at times. He is the top metre maker in possibly the top side in the competition. I would worry about how we would go without the guy to be honest.

How do you conclude Ellis will do so well over there after approx 3 matches as well ? Still very early days yet.

He's getting praise from the Aus Press, which is impressive in itself.

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:43 am  

Ski wrote:

Ah yes, the old list

Wellens - Carthorse, slow, past it
Gardner - Over-rated, rubbish, can't catch
Gidley - Possibly the only one any good, but old and past it
Gilmour - Never a centre
Meli - Nuff said
Pryce - Off to get bummed in the showers, and didn't show up for the world cup
Long - past it, show pony, needs a hair cut
Graham - Ginger, scouse, only good because of the other players
The King - Past it
Hargreaves - Wigan reject, only good because of the other players
Wilkin - show pony, not big enough, good enough
Puletua - Over-rated, over the hill, over here
Flannery - Who?

Roby - One trick pony
Fa'asavalu - Past it
Clough - not good enough
Cayless - Crock

The funny thing is, I have actually heard all of that from opposing fans. Jeez, imagine how good we would be if we actually had some good players!

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:48 pm  

who do you support again ski

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:16 pm  

joe d saint wrote:

who do you support again ski

Like an aeroplane.