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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:03 pm  
theblondebomber wrote:
i think the leeds game will have the biggest scoreline


I agree. Can't wait to see the aggregate score from the 3 games and then hear whst the very very pro world series campaigners have to say.

This good for rugby league? Lol
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:10 pm  
theblondebomber wrote:
i think the leeds game will have the biggest scoreline


One for the history books, if Leeds lose I think its only Saints who will have the record of being World Club Champions after winning a treble and I don't think that will be repeated again.
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:09 pm  
The Aussies (& Kiwis) are always going to have the advantage in any such fixture. Better players. Better competition. We can win. But it's unrealistic to expect us to do so year after year.

I'm not a big fan of the fixture. But I think it would be a mistake to deprive the youngsters especially the opportunity to test themselves against the best.
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:56 pm  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
+1, but you would have guessed that anyway BJ.

Why are many RL fans so bloody insular?


Still think it's good for the sport of rugby league ?

That's 6-0 in the series now to the NRL and all 3 this year was big big scores. It's embarrassing and needs scrapping.

We are miles behind them and not getting anywhere near them.
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:01 pm  
I think the SL needs to increase the cap if we want our top teams to compete, the cap relative to inflation has gone down in recent years and the poorer teams are holding us back
Theres enough quality in SL to beat NRL teams but it gets spread out by the salary cap, if the top players all played for the 5/6 teams who could afford it then they would be as good as NRL teams
If the NRL is the premier league then we should aim at being La Liga, where the league on the whole isnt that good but the top teams in the world are in that league
It would mean a less competitive SL but the players would improve by playing superior opposition on a regular basis, leading to a better international team as well
If the international tea got better then there would be more TV money in SL and eventually the weaker teams would catch up
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:18 pm  
leedsnsouths wrote:
I think the SL needs to increase the cap if we want our top teams to compete, the cap relative to inflation has gone down in recent years and the poorer teams are holding us back
Theres enough quality in SL to beat NRL teams but it gets spread out by the salary cap, if the top players all played for the 5/6 teams who could afford it then they would be as good as NRL teams
If the NRL is the premier league then we should aim at being La Liga, where the league on the whole isnt that good but the top teams in the world are in that league
It would mean a less competitive SL but the players would improve by playing superior opposition on a regular basis, leading to a better international team as well
If the international tea got better then there would be more TV money in SL and eventually the weaker teams would catch up


That's nonsense. Who plays for the bottom clubs in that example? A load of very poor players and there is a blowout scoreline every time a top 5/6 side plays one from below. Those clubs see their crowds go down and the cycle repeats. You end up with four or five strong clubs who get thrashed by the NRL sides as they go six between decent games, whereas the NRL sides play at a high level week in week out.

What increasing the cap would do is mean the current players getting paid more. That will not improve them as players at all. Your scenario of the best players being spread out is what we want, it's how the NRL works. There are genuinely world class players in every single side over there. JT plays for NQC who have been whipping boys for years until recently, you had Andrew Johns at Newcastle, Paul Gallen at Cronulla, Benji at Wests. Clubs in the NRL can go from bottom to top in a season with the right recruitment, coaching and a bit of luck as the quality is consistent throughout the league. In SL Wakefield couldn't go from bottom to top ever as there is such little talent about.

The problem is depth. Depth, depth, depth. We don't recruit the best athletes as a sport in this country. This country has produced it's own Greg Inglis, Billy Slaters and Paul Gallens. Instead of playing league they will be playing Sunday league football or working in McDonalds. Even if they were brought up in the heartland areas they probably wouldn't play league. One of my lads plays for a Under 11s football team in Warrington. They have two lads in that side that are just outstanding athletes, borderline-academy quality. They might eventually get scouted but they won't play professionally. Those kids shouldn't be allowed to leave primary school without being abducted by league talent scouts and coerced into playing the game. Clubs should be mining the primary schools for the athletes and those with good coordination and general skill levels and introducing them to league. Those two kids aren't playing the sport as their parents aren't into it either so they don't watch it. My lad is the smallest on his football team by about half a foot, he plays RL as well and he's the same size as 3/4 of the players as the best athletes play football. If you grew up in Chester, Manchester or 90% of the rest of the country it would probably never cross your mind to play League. With that amount of talent being wasted, it's no surprise we're so far behind.

The surge in British coaches at SL level is another concern. The main characteristic that British coaches share is that they are idiots, dumb, pigheaded idiots. When you've got Shaun Wane who doesn't have the intelligence to open a tin and KC who is three sheets to the wind coaching versus people like Wayne Bennett and Trent Robinson, it's not surprising our players don't develop.
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:28 am  
Saddened! wrote:
That's nonsense. Who plays for the bottom clubs in that example? A load of very poor players and there is a blowout scoreline every time a top 5/6 side plays one from below. Those clubs see their crowds go down and the cycle repeats. You end up with four or five strong clubs who get thrashed by the NRL sides as they go six between decent games, whereas the NRL sides play at a high level week in week out.

What increasing the cap would do is mean the current players getting paid more. That will not improve them as players at all. Your scenario of the best players being spread out is what we want, it's how the NRL works. There are genuinely world class players in every single side over there. JT plays for NQC who have been whipping boys for years until recently, you had Andrew Johns at Newcastle, Paul Gallen at Cronulla, Benji at Wests. Clubs in the NRL can go from bottom to top in a season with the right recruitment, coaching and a bit of luck as the quality is consistent throughout the league. In SL Wakefield couldn't go from bottom to top ever as there is such little talent about.

The problem is depth. Depth, depth, depth. We don't recruit the best athletes as a sport in this country. This country has produced it's own Greg Inglis, Billy Slaters and Paul Gallens. Instead of playing league they will be playing Sunday league football or working in McDonalds. Even if they were brought up in the heartland areas they probably wouldn't play league. One of my lads plays for a Under 11s football team in Warrington. They have two lads in that side that are just outstanding athletes, borderline-academy quality. They might eventually get scouted but they won't play professionally. Those kids shouldn't be allowed to leave primary school without being abducted by league talent scouts and coerced into playing the game. Clubs should be mining the primary schools for the athletes and those with good coordination and general skill levels and introducing them to league. Those two kids aren't playing the sport as their parents aren't into it either so they don't watch it. My lad is the smallest on his football team by about half a foot, he plays RL as well and he's the same size as 3/4 of the players as the best athletes play football. If you grew up in Chester, Manchester or 90% of the rest of the country it would probably never cross your mind to play League. With that amount of talent being wasted, it's no surprise we're so far behind.

The surge in British coaches at SL level is another concern. The main characteristic that British coaches share is that they are idiots, dumb, pigheaded idiots. When you've got Shaun Wane who doesn't have the intelligence to open a tin and KC who is three sheets to the wind coaching versus people like Wayne Bennett and Trent Robinson, it's not surprising our players don't develop.


Do we have enough quality players to spread out over 12 or more teams? clearly not so the salary cap just drags back the teams that are successful and generate more money
my point is that the SL is becoming a tighter competition because the top teams are getting worse not tha tthe bottom teams are getting better
in the NRL they do and can impose a cap (that everyone can afford) to make sure they are spread
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:59 am  
I agree with Saddened. The idea that raising the cap would change much is plain silly. It may prevent a few players going to the NRL but you'd have to raise it to astronomical levels to get star Aussies - or more importantly for England star RU players - to join SL. Far better to focus as much as possible on juniors.

I also agree that the British coaches are worrying. Robinson and Maguire stood out in SL because they were good coaches, representing the next generation of Aussies. I have no idea why SL clubs have moved away from getting this sort of young Aussie coach. The only limitation is that they want an NRL head coach gig which limits their lifespan in SL.

The only thing I'd add is that I'd be looking to get one or more of these very good technical Aussie coaches involved with juniors. From what I've seen SL Academy players desperately need work spending on core skills (and for halfbacks game management). Whilst you can't produce freak athletes from nothing, its absurd that a supposed halfback can get a pro contract in 2016 without any kind of passing ability.
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:01 am  
Where is the evidence that DEPTH plays the deciding role in international sporting success?

How many union and cricket players are there in England? How many in Australia? Which of the two nations has had the most success over the last three or four decades?

How many fully professional football clubs exist in England? Compare that figure with, say, Italy or Spain or France. Compare the FACILITIES at those clubs with lower league clubs in Italy, Spain & France.

As for coaching - we are talking about FULLY PROFESSIONAL clubs here. Assuming that our guys are not rolling up each day half sloshed there is absolutely NO REASON to assume they aren't seeking to refine their craft in precisely the same fashion as their colleagues in the Southern Hemisphere. There's nothing stopping them from even EXCEEDING their abilities should they feel inclined (as I assume all of them do).

This coaching issue is used far too often as a stick to beat SL. When our teams win everyone shuts up. When they lose they start bleating again. I'm not saying there aren't issues which need to be addressed in SL - but it's silly to keep on harping about a problem whose existence we really have no reliable means of testing.
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Re: 19 man Squad v Sydney Roosters : Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 am  
The salary cap hinders the top teams and stops them hogging all the best players and signing Southern Hemisphere stars. As a result of this, they've had to bring through more kids into the first team. So the very thing that has hindered the club teams has improved our national team. We are now spoilt for options in most positions and I believe we are more competitive as a result. We need a strong national team to attract bigger sponsors and media recognition...no matter how good our club sides are, the names of St.Helens, Wigan, Hull etc are never going to grab the imagination of people who live around the country...only a national side that's sticking the boot in on the Aussies and Kiwis will do that.
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