Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:31 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

I think you're missing my point, which is that being released by Saints doesn't necessarily mean you're not a top player, it may just mean you had playes like Cunningham/Roby/Eastmond blocking your path at the time.

...not missing your point which was clear and well made. Just moving the conversation along...

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:34 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

I think you're missing my point, which is that being released by Saints doesn't necessarily mean you're not a top player, it may just mean you had playes like Cunningham/Roby/Eastmond blocking your path at the time.

Again, fair point. However that wasn't the case at our place. He got moved on because he wasn't seen as good enough to be first choice hooker. Again at Wire he has never been first choice and has always played a back up role. The point being that he has never been perceived at ANY club he has been at to be the best option. That's not to say he isn't a good player. However, there's a big difference between being a good player and being among the very best.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:42 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Almost all teams work with two hookers. I'm not sure that alters the points I was making in any way. Higham is still back up hooker whichever way you dress it. What about the questions I asked at the end Pete? What's your opinion on those?

He's not back up mate, he's used as a player from the bench. The days of the bench just being the not so good players are well gone.

Some players have a bigger bearing on the game from the bench. Last year monas was being used from the bench. Clark at cas as also been used from the bench like the play off game against saints for example.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:45 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Again, fair point. However that wasn't the case at our place. He got moved on because he wasn't seen as good enough to be first choice hooker. Again at Wire he has never been first choice and has always played a back up role. The point being that he has never been perceived at ANY club he has been at to be the best option. That's not to say he isn't a good player. However, there's a big difference between being a good player and being among the very best.

I would take issue with you first/second choice point, in my opinion it's similar to saying a prop that is deemed more effective off the bench is second choice and therefore inferior.

The fact is Wire play with 2 hookers and Higham is one of them. There will be a lot of people (inlcuding me) who would say he should have played a lot more minutes this year as Wire have more often thatn not looked a better and more dangerous team with him on the field.

He had a bad time at Wigam, but you could say at least a small pasrt of that is the shambles your club was in for some of that time, and using him wrongly.

As for your quastion as to whether Saints would go for Higham if Roby was out - I blummin well hope we would as he'd be brilliant cover; I think Higham might just have edged a game ahead of Stuart Howarth . . . . .

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 pm  

My recollection is that Higham was replaced by Mark Riddell, who was a totally different type of player. He was bought to bring some control to the play, and was very much a similar style to MMc, not flashy, got the job done, a very good passer of the ball.

The players reckoned he was the toughest in the group, but he was useless in his first season, until Madge got hold of him, made him lose weight and he started to prosper.

Higham was ok at Wigan but Brian Noble didn't fancy him, thought he was a headless chicken. He spent his whole time at Wigan trying to get Terry Newton back. It was Millward's brainwave to get rid.

Higham's done well at Wire. But he only plays half a game at most. Defo better than most though. I'd put Roby, Lunt, Clark, Hodgson, Houghton, MMc, Monas & Henderson ahead of him (not in that order necessarily)

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:04 pm  

I think that last post emphasis a difference in philosophy. Between Wigan and Saints.
It also demonstrates why Millward did not work at Wigan. He tried to take the Saints style to Wigan and it probably was undoing years of inbreding there (sorry training).

Noble was a much better fit for Wigan. Same for Riddell and MM, in a Saints outfit they would be seen as very unproductive players. In the Wigan outfit they buy into that style of play. I would not quite call it a juggernaught style of play like Bradford used to be, but it is a more defensive style, counter attacking if you like. Pin them down and hope for the mistake. Strangely that is what we will be relying on come Saturday due to the nature of our team at the moment lacking creative players.

The funny thing is, in my head I know we can't win but the closer the game gets the more I start to convince myself we can.. Strange how the head can be over ruled at times. Nothing has changed, yet the simple passage of time raises hope.

I thought we had good odds despite losing Walsh of finishing top. I think I gave us a 60% chance of winning the LLS and I would have settled for that as I thought it would give us a good bash at getting to a final if not winning one.

But now it's here, you just have to hope don't you.

Re: THEM : Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:16 am  

I think its only fair to comment that the Mick Higham of the last couple of years is a much better all round hooker than the "One Trick Mick" that we shipped to Wigan who themselves shipped on.
Last year especially he really impressed me with his craft around the ruck.

Re: THEM : Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:57 pm  

St pete wrote:

He's not back up mate, he's used as a player from the bench. The days of the bench just being the not so good players are well gone.

Some players have a bigger bearing on the game from the bench. Last year monas was being used from the bench. Clark at cas as also been used from the bench like the play off game against saints for example.

To be fair Monas was used off the bench because of injury problems starting to take their toll and Clarke because he was starting to run out of steam after the Challenge cup. Neither was, or is, a bench hooker and I guarantee Clarke will start for Wire next season. I also think you're giving too much credit to the 2 hooker system. In ALL cases throughout the league you start with your strongest players. There are no examples that I can think of where this is not the case unless there are injury or fitness issues.

Ditto regarding prop FTV. There are indeed instances where a player is more effective from the bench. In all but the rarest of instances, they are 'impact' players, younger players or players physically unable to do long minutes. That is exactly where Higham fits in. He is an impact hooker good at speeding the ruck up, particularly when defences are tiring. I too would be happy if you'd replace Roby with Higham. Please do it on Saturday in fact!

Re: THEM : Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:50 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Wonder if we can go through alphabet why other plans dislike Wigan.

No 1 Saint has started it with A = Arrogance, I will go with B = Bullys

C champions

you walked right into that mate lol

Re: THEM : Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:16 pm  

wigan pie man wrote:

C champions

you walked right into that mate lol

Your a couple of days late in posting mate. Its all ready been allocated C = Cannonball