Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:14 am  

I don't think this is about structure. The clubs agreed the 12 team structure.

From what I've heard from there is a concerted move on the management of the RFL both from the SL and from within the RFL.

The key issue is obviously money from the failure to get a sponsor for the SL or RLWC and Lenaghan has also raised the issue of how money is distributed. Apparently there are voices regarding why the RFL are holding England's opening game in Wales and the double header semis are in London.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:37 am  

It doesn't surprise me that clubs are becoming disillusioned.

The state of finances in the game is dire. The RFL decided to ditch the Stobart deal with no backup. I have not noticed a Stobart truck with a SL picture for about 4 months. Surely this sponsorship deal would have been better continuing, until a new sponsor could be found. I remember Stevo saying on Back Chat that Stobard wouldn't re-skin their trucks, and i think the RFL hoped this would be true.

I think it's got to the point where even the big clubs (Wigan, Leeds, Saints) are worried about where the game will be in 5 years time.

If this downward trend continues, more home grown talent will be looking to leave for Aus, leaving the clubs with less local identity.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 am  

SombreroBu11 wrote:

You play your weekly rounds, the top 8 in SL go into one group to play off for the SL title. The bottom 4 from SL and top 4 from the Championship play off to be in SL the following season (ie whoever finishes in the top 4 spots of those 8 teams after this "playoff" are in SL next year.) Admittedly this leaves the bottom 8 in the Championship with nothing to play for, but even now theres a lot of teams with nothing to play for by that time of the season anyway.

How sustainable is it having possibly 4 full time teams suddenly relegated to part time? It would be a complete disaster.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:49 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

Apparently there are voices regarding why the RFL are holding England's opening game in Wales and the double header semis are in London.

Guess that is still the great hope for expansion and projecting the image of a national game. Ok if fans fill Cardiff and Wembley but a disaster if there are 40/50,000 empty seats being broadcast.

I suspect D-Day for the game will come when the current Sky deal expires, but failure to secure any sponsorship - even van signage - is a black mark against the rfl

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:56 pm  

Northernrelic wrote:

Guess that is still the great hope for expansion and projecting the image of a national game. Ok if fans fill Cardiff and Wembley but a disaster if there are 40/50,000 empty seats being broadcast.

I suspect D-Day for the game will come when the current Sky deal expires, but failure to secure any sponsorship - even van signage - is a black mark against the rfl

The top clubs will argue that being able hold onto their best players in the elite competition must take precedence over the costs of expansion, when the game's finances are so stretched.

This is only a guess on the basis of what's happened so far but I reckon Woods is on the brink.

[Bulliac]

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:57 pm  

childofthenorthern wrote:

I get your point but if we're in the bottom 4 of the top 12 maybe we're not competitive with Sts and Wigan and actually we're closer to the top group of clubs in the bottom 12. As it's a one off game against each of the top 4 from the bottom 12 who's to say how close those will be, assuming to get in the top 4 those clubs will have been playing well and are high on confidence while the bottom 4 will have been playing badly and low on confidence.

Well, we were 9th this time round which puts us effectively in the bottom four had there been 12 clubs in the division and we've been competitive in most games. Our worst performance was probably against Hudds at magic weekend, but we also beat them at their place earlier in the season, which evens it out, I guess. Main point is that we were largely 'in' the games against the top sides and not really 'tonked' all season.

As previously pointed out though, being 'high on confidence' after going ok in a fixture list against semi-pro part-timers is no build up to playing fully professional teams. It might happen, once in a while, in a one cup game, maybe [though very rarely does so in reality] but in a league situation the chances of the Championship clubs beating, or more importantly gaining more points than the SL clubs, is around zero imo.

I think you also have to ask how are the SL clubs, who might be expected to finish in those lower positions, going to market season tickets? We might be playing Leeds and Wigan or it could be Leigh and Featherstone doesn't sound a very solid basis for selling tickets.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:04 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

As previously pointed out though, being 'high on confidence' after going ok in a fixture list against semi-pro part-timers is no build up to playing fully professional teams. It might happen, once in a while, in a one cup game, maybe [though very rarely does so in reality] but in a league situation the chances of the Championship clubs beating, or more importantly gaining more points than the SL clubs, is around zero imo.

Knowing the RFL as we do, it wouldn't surprise me if they thought that issuing teams a handicap (opposition +"x" points) would solve this, this would be the worst scenario ever!

[Bulliac]

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:29 pm  

daveyz999 wrote:

Knowing the RFL as we do, it wouldn't surprise me if they thought that issuing teams a handicap (opposition +"x" points) would solve this, this would be the worst scenario ever!

To be honest I feel the RFL are searching for some kind of 'holy Grail' which doesn't exist. There is no 'best' system for deciding who goes up or down; they all appear, in some way, defective. There might be a least worst system, and maybe, someday, we'll stumble across it...until then we'll flop about from licensing to P&R and back gain until we all forget, or maybe cease to care, where we started.

Maybe, to take another tack, there is too much micro management and the answer is to be hands off? Two divisions, straight P&R, no cap, have as many overseas players as you can get visas for and devil take the hindmost?

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:38 pm  

Wigan want to stick with 14 SL Clubs according to the Sky report at start of thread (and yesterdays Times). We would not argue against that would we?

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:39 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:

The top clubs will argue that being able hold onto their best players in the elite competition must take precedence over the costs of expansion, when the game's finances are so stretched.
.

At the moment even the elite cannot hold on to players, and there are not enough top clubs with secure finance to make a full "league". From the current SL there are question marks of one sort or other over the Bulls, London, Wakey, Castleford and HKR? Some hot seats at Red House whoever is sitting in them.