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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 12:28 pm  
I was thinking about this before and came up with (what I thought) was a better system than the one we have now and I'd be curious to people's opinions.

The thing is, I quite like the system we have now. I like the whole 'every minute matters' thing, the end of year playoffs etc. It's a good system. The problem is it doesn't work in our current circumstances. If the divide between the Championship and SL teams wasn't so big, and if there were more full time teams in the Championship, then I think the current system would work fine (imagine it for the Premier League/Championship in football for example). But they're two big 'ifs' and so it doesn't work. With all that in mind and assuming no changes in Salary Cap rules from what we have now, this is what I came up with:

At the end of the normal weekly rounds, the middle 8 we have now splits into two pools, a Championship Pool of the top 4 Champ teams (Pool A) and a Super League Pool of the bottom 4 SL teams (Pool B).

Each team plays the other team in their pools once, with home advantage determined by position at the end of the weekly rounds, something like this (with the far left number representing the finishing position at the end of the regular season):

Pool A:

1 2H 3A 4H
2 1A 4H 3H
3 4A 1H 2A
4 3H 2A 1A

Pool B

9 10H 11A 12H
10 9A 12H 11H
11 12A 9H 10A
12 11H 10A 9A

At the end of these games, whoever is top of Pool A is automatically promoted to SL, and whoever is bottom of Pool B is automatically relegated to the Championship. 2nd in Pool A play 3rd in Pool B in the Million Pound Game.

Pros:

For the RFL: They keep their 'every minute matters' idea, and the MPG. With a guaranteed method of promotion, could potential outside investment interest in Championship clubs increase?

For the Champ Clubs: There's a guaranteed promotion opportunity, and a 2nd one which could be earned on the day. For at least 1 club, it removes the massive gap in SL and Champ teams. And the investment point from the RLF too.

Champ and SL Clubs: With the season finishing earlier (even with the MPG), they have more time to assemble/restructure their squads if they have been promoted/relegated.

Cons:

For the RFL (Maybe): A shorter season for some clubs. Also the same for the clubs, reduced gate receipts and all that.

For the SL Clubs: A guaranteed threat of relegation for one club.

For the Championship Clubs: There is obviously the potential for 'Yo-Yo' clubs, up and straight back down. But then that's just a fact of P&R unless there's some sort of dispensation.

I'm curious to what people think. In the meantime, that took a lot of brain power after a bank holiday and I'm off for a lie down!
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 2:39 pm  
What's wrong with a straight forward bottom of super league v top of championship on a home and away basis.
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 2:56 pm  
1 up, 1 down
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 3:18 pm  
SombreroBu11 wrote:
I was thinking about this before and came up with (what I thought) was a better system than the one we have now and I'd be curious to people's opinions.

The thing is, I quite like the system we have now. I like the whole 'every minute matters' thing, the end of year playoffs etc. It's a good system. The problem is it doesn't work in our current circumstances. If the divide between the Championship and SL teams wasn't so big, and if there were more full time teams in the Championship, then I think the current system would work fine (imagine it for the Premier League/Championship in football for example). But they're two big 'ifs' and so it doesn't work. With all that in mind and assuming no changes in Salary Cap rules from what we have now, this is what I came up with:

At the end of the normal weekly rounds, the middle 8 we have now splits into two pools, a Championship Pool of the top 4 Champ teams (Pool A) and a Super League Pool of the bottom 4 SL teams (Pool B).

Each team plays the other team in their pools once, with home advantage determined by position at the end of the weekly rounds, something like this (with the far left number representing the finishing position at the end of the regular season):

Pool A:

1 2H 3A 4H
2 1A 4H 3H
3 4A 1H 2A
4 3H 2A 1A

Pool B

9 10H 11A 12H
10 9A 12H 11H
11 12A 9H 10A
12 11H 10A 9A

At the end of these games, whoever is top of Pool A is automatically promoted to SL, and whoever is bottom of Pool B is automatically relegated to the Championship. 2nd in Pool A play 3rd in Pool B in the Million Pound Game.

Pros:

For the RFL: They keep their 'every minute matters' idea, and the MPG. With a guaranteed method of promotion, could potential outside investment interest in Championship clubs increase?

For the Champ Clubs: There's a guaranteed promotion opportunity, and a 2nd one which could be earned on the day. For at least 1 club, it removes the massive gap in SL and Champ teams. And the investment point from the RLF too.

Champ and SL Clubs: With the season finishing earlier (even with the MPG), they have more time to assemble/restructure their squads if they have been promoted/relegated.

Cons:

For the RFL (Maybe): A shorter season for some clubs. Also the same for the clubs, reduced gate receipts and all that.

For the SL Clubs: A guaranteed threat of relegation for one club.

For the Championship Clubs: There is obviously the potential for 'Yo-Yo' clubs, up and straight back down. But then that's just a fact of P&R unless there's some sort of dispensation.

I'm curious to what people think. In the meantime, that took a lot of brain power after a bank holiday and I'm off for a lie down!


Why having played a whole season home and away and finished 1st in the league should the top team top of the championship have to play the next 3 best teams in the championship again to prove they are the best. They have proved it already!

I'm with Bulls4Champs - one up one down
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 3:27 pm  
FevGrinder wrote:
Why having played a whole season home and away and finished 1st in the league should the top team top of the championship have to play the next 3 best teams in the championship again to prove they are the best. They have proved it already!

I'm with Bulls4Champs - one up one down


Exactly, this system rewards poor form and punishes good form when it should be the other way around
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 3:47 pm  
FevGrinder wrote:
Why having played a whole season home and away and finished 1st in the league should the top team top of the championship have to play the next 3 best teams in the championship again to prove they are the best. They have proved it already!

I'm with Bulls4Champs - one up one down


That's true. I never thought of it that way. I was coming at it more from the side of removing the ridiculous hurdle we have with the gap between SL and Champ clubs. Back to the drawing board for me! :oops:
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 4:28 pm  
Well, the reason they do it in soccer is 'cos it's a nice little earner. I suspect, at least part of the reason in rugby is they intend to make it the same.
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 6:33 pm  
chissitt wrote:
What's wrong with a straight forward bottom of super league v top of championship on a home and away basis.


Because it aint gonna happen...and even if it did it is very unlikely a championship club would win.
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 6:40 pm  
Bulls4Champs wrote:
1 up, 1 down


That aint gonna happen either...the MPG is likely to stay as it is a "money spinner", the problem is the SL club has so much more money than the Championship club that it is always likely to win the one off game.

What is needed is a system where the club finishing bottom of Super League can still play their way back into it, whilst at least one Championship club is guaranteed promotion each year.
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Re: Middle 8s - a fairer system : Tue May 31, 2016 7:10 pm  
I think the answer lies with all teams starting off on zero points. Points should be awarded for finishing positions in both leagues,and passed on to the middle 8's.
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