Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:33 am  

The whole thing has been a farce. I'd had enough a long time ago. For David Cameron to compare himself to Winston Churchill in a debate makes my stomach crawl. The difference between Churchill and you, Mr Prime Minister, is that Churchill had the balls to make the right decision, not ask the people who can't possibly know what the right decision is due to all the mud slinging.

I'm sick of the vitriol - the supposed "left wing" shouting down everyone who isn't voting Remain, when realistically they are normally middle class white people operating under the pretense of left wing politics when in actual fact they only care about saving their own skin - and equally the "take back control" argument that is completely nonsensical and baseless.

It all boils down to a government that is completely unfit for purpose, creating a huge mess where the UK population and beyond are going hammer and tong at each other in a debate where they have been fed lies. It is just an example of the system flexing its muscles, creating chaos, manipulating and controlling the masses while convincing them that they have the power to change something and that their vote makes a difference.

Does it chuff.

The media have called this one, and we're gonna Remain in the EU. Everything on the mainstream media is telling us to Remain - even on the Simpsons last night, the parting message was that we're better together, and that we shouldn't let old people run the world! It's twisted.

Apologies for ranting.

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:37 am  

Fr13daY wrote:

I fear the worst case scenario is a 51-49% win for the Remain camp, so all we will hear is cries of 'fix!' from the Brexiteers and repeated cries for a re-run ad nauseum.

You will NEVER silence the Seperatists, regardless of the result unfortunately. They never give up.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:44 am  

mystic eddie wrote:

Plus, that Pumpetypump is a smashing lad. I am with him 100%

Well if we vote to leave I'm moving my family into your house in Scotland, so you've a huge incentive to get people to vote sensibly.

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:49 am  

DrFeelgood wrote:

I'm sick of the vitriol - the supposed "left wing" shouting down everyone who isn't voting Remain

FWIW, both sides are feeling the same way. I know many people who have an opinion but are determined to keep it to themselves because they expected to get shouted down. I'm not particularly wary of sharing my opinion but I have been on this. And it's a different one to yours. I have flat out refused to talk about it at work with anyone.

It says a lot about the nature of this campaign.

It's been interesting following the primaries campaign in the US this year for similar reasons. Measuring the support for Clinton is essentially impossible because even her most ardent supporters aren't saying they support her. Whether it's a divisive issue or not she's the most divisive figure in American politics and has been for 20+ years. Trump and the Bernie Bros are in your face. Clinton supporters are in closed FB groups, hiding their numbers. Add a few percent to every poll you see.

My favourite moment in the referendum happened last night. A pro-remain friend of mine posted a link on FB. It was about a riot in Calais. It was a link from the Daily Mail. FB was suggesting links from the Telegraph, the BBC, Guardian, NY Times and a few others. It had just been on the evening news on the radio.

He had three different people jump on it demanding to know if this was true why it hadn't been in the news, and insisting that he was a scaremongering fool.

This is the level we're at. Everyone's a fscking idiot. Stay or leave the decision is invalid because it was made by idiots dancing to the tune of manipulative w@nkers for whom the argument is not about what the argument is all about. And either way it'll be within the margin of error. Everyone with a dog in the fight is going to feel like they've lost out to the tyranny of a marginal majority. And we'll resent each other for decades for what in the final analysis is a Tory civil war.

It's a sound basis from which to stride confidently into the future, all arguments put definitively behind us.

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:52 am  

If we do Leave, Scotland will separate, the rest of the UK will become permanently Tory, we will be heading to Scotland to join tigercub. If they will have us.

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:53 am  

Pumpetypump wrote:

Well if we vote to leave I'm moving my family into your house in Scotland, so you've a huge incentive to get people to vote sensibly.

Haha. You and your family would be welcomed anytime dude. I have faith that you will get the result you crave however.

You remind me of myself during the Indyref up here. I was out leafleting for the No campaign and, my word, did I get some abuse from the "Yessers" for doing so.

But it helped I guess because I got the result I wanted.

(Odd to say but I have actually learned more about the EU Ref from YOU than I have been able to learn from the very people who are supposed to be convincing us!)

Still, anyone who watched the Referendum debate last night and were undecided surely must be in the Remain camp now. They absolutely destroyed the Leave mob. I am very proud, as a Scotsman, of Ruth Davidson. She may well be a Tory and I have never been one, but, my word, she is a wonderful politician and speaker and I have a lot of time for her. She was magnificent last night.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:54 am  

vbfg wrote:

And we'll resent each other for decades for what in the final analysis is a Tory civil war.

I agree. But I'd add to that the fact that the vote is close, is partly due to the limp and luke-warm manner in which the Labour leadership have sold the remain case.

The hardcore left are instinctively mistrustful of the EU whereas the rank and file of the parliamentary Labour party are not. They too are having a civil war, albeit a far gentler one.

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:54 am  

tigertot wrote:

If we do Leave, Scotland will separate, the rest of the UK will become permanently Tory, we will be heading to Scotland to join tigercub. If they will have us.

Tigercub lives up here dude?

Where abouts?

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:58 am  

vbfg wrote:

FWIW, both sides are feeling the same way. I know many people who have an opinion but are determined to keep it to themselves because they expected to get shouted down. I'm not particularly wary of sharing my opinion but I have been on this. And it's a different one to yours. I have flat out refused to talk about it at work with anyone.

I think this would have made my life a little easier, and in hindsight it would have been more advisable if more people did this! A lot of my discussions with people descended to them criticizing me for threatening to not vote because I feel like both sides have treated me and everyone else like a mug! I have rarely given my position away, but I've still had an onslaught of middle class Remain supporters lambast me on social media outlets. I have no doubt that vote Remain people may have felt similar from the vote Leave camp, but for me to sit in the middle and get hauled over the coals felt quite lonely.

Re: OT - In/Out : Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:14 pm  

vbfg wrote:

FWIW, both sides are feeling the same way. I know many people who have an opinion but are determined to keep it to themselves because they expected to get shouted down. I'm not particularly wary of sharing my opinion but I have been on this. And it's a different one to yours. I have flat out refused to talk about it at work with anyone.

It says a lot about the nature of this campaign.

It's been interesting following the primaries campaign in the US this year for similar reasons. Measuring the support for Clinton is essentially impossible because even her most ardent supporters aren't saying they support her. Whether it's a divisive issue or not she's the most divisive figure in American politics and has been for 20+ years. Trump and the Bernie Bros are in your face. Clinton supporters are in closed FB groups, hiding their numbers. Add a few percent to every poll you see.

My favourite moment in the referendum happened last night. A pro-remain friend of mine posted a link on FB. It was about a riot in Calais. It was a link from the Daily Mail. FB was suggesting links from the Telegraph, the BBC, Guardian, NY Times and a few others. It had just been on the evening news on the radio.

He had three different people jump on it demanding to know if this was true why it hadn't been in the news, and insisting that he was a scaremongering fool.

This is the level we're at. Everyone's a fscking idiot. Stay or leave the decision is invalid because it was made by idiots dancing to the tune of manipulative w@nkers for whom the argument is not about what the argument is all about. And either way it'll be within the margin of error. Everyone with a dog in the fight is going to feel like they've lost out to the tyranny of a marginal majority. And we'll resent each other for decades for what in the final analysis is a Tory civil war.

It's a sound basis from which to stride confidently into the future, all arguments put definitively behind us.

Agreed word for word. Sadly, on the tele and in the media and social media, those who shout the loudest and most aggressively are the ones heard.

Hard Remainers call anyone who votes leave an ill-informed, bigoted, racist little Englander

Hard Brexiters blame everything on immigrants.

They're the ones who get all the media attention. I mean why's Nigel Farage had so much media coverage? He's not even an MP??

I can't stand Farage, i'm voting leave but for completely different reasons to Farage. me voting Leave is NOT a vote for Farage. I will always respect anyone who votes remain and won't shout at them or suddenly lose respect for them. Everyone has a vote and will vote for remain or leave for different reasons. Sadly respect has been what is missing from this campaign.