Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:38 pm  

As Dilligaff has reported the last paragraph of the RL Express article alleges that the non payment of pension contributions is a six figure sum. The Pension regulator is involved. That body takes a hardline view on any irregularities. Penalties are severe.
No wonder Roger is angry. If it is a case of not paying to a fund the contributions that have been deducted - that’s a complete breach of trust and confidence
This new consortium will not only need deep pockets. They will have a hell of a job rebuilding trust with the playing squad and staff.

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:50 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

I think the devil is in the detail, some of which we probably won't ever get to find out.

On the face of it, yes you could say Chalmers had nothing to begin with and left us in the championship and not in admin. After all us fans have had to endure, just not being in admin feels like a momental victory.

But the stuff about pensions and Rogers comments and Ethan Ryan's dad's tweets, there was something seriously wrong going on. Not paying pensions, refusing to give players MRI scans (according to Ethans dad) make uncomfortable reading.

I sincerely hope with the new owners those sort of basics of how we treat our players and businesses are dealt with professionally. Those things are far more important than on field performances in the long run.

Can't believe j k stood by whilst mri scans were nt approved by owners....

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:54 pm  

The consortium must think the debts and pension issue are salvageable and also be able to put together a playing squad, albeit small and likely to be p/t

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:11 pm  

There's also a line in the LE report that part of the 2020 central funding has been used to "settle issues away from the rugby field, adding to an already further complicated situation". Anyone any clue what that's about?

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:13 pm  

Many of you say there is more to come. There is.

Some apparent facts:

1) Pension scandal - the facts re the pension, and some other stuff is published in the League express online edition this evening. Some of their sources may, however, not be 100% reliable. Don't wish to be unduly negative, but they do not appear to have undertaken much investigative journalism (if any) or analysis. In addition, the pension 'nest egg' story has been all over twitter for days; so that aspect of their feature is hardly breaking news.

2) It appears that Chalmers (who somewhat surprisingly is still reasonably well thought of on this sub-forum) may have been thrown under a bus and apparently the RFL finally (and after 'appointing' him as the chosen one in 2017) deemed him to no longer be a 'fit and proper' owner. That said; was AC ever a fit and proper owner?

3) The Bulls need an owner with real cash to invest. We have reason to believe that the new regime is unlikely to provide such cash, and may be no more than a convenient sticking plaster solution to temporarily keep the wolves at bay. Some say a certain ex RFL official may be pulling many (if not all) the strings here. Some are saying that the new shareholder (or one of them) is ex Wakey's Chris Brereton. If you look him up on Companies House, Chris is not a man of substance. He conveniently appears to look like an AC#2. Is that good for the club? Who else (if anybody) is part of the so called new consortium, and most importantly what cash will they put down on the table. Did the new consortium even do any thorough due diligence. After all it is rumoured that they may have to stump up >£500K for the club's present debts. As said earlier might the new consortium be no more than a sticking plaster solution for the club's apparent 'puppet master'.

SEE CLARIFICATION TO SOME OF THE ABOVE COMMENTS IN (PENSIONS) NESTEGG POST DATED 7 OCT.

4) Would we buy a season ticket based on today's 'news'. No.

5) In any case, part 1 of the grand plan is in place and looking back on the forum over the past 12-18 months on topics relating to Odsal and it's 'future' it seems that a forum member - Belcki - , now one of us, got it right. The Bulls left Odsal shortly after the RFL's head lease obligation to have to play rugby league at Odsal Stadium expired in Spring of this year. The facts appear to indicate that in circa 2012 the RFL noticed prior to acquiring the Odsal head lease that there was no obligation for rugby league to be played at Odsal post Spring 2019. So was it therefore a mere coincidence that the Bulls has thereafter been repeatedly handed over by the RFL to people without sufficient experience and finance to run a club of the Bulls stature and potential, and owners who were then harshly and repeatedly sanctioned by the RFL (e.g. financial constraints and unduly harsh points deductions etc) in order that it was inevitable that such 'owners' were all going to fail; and they did - big time. As another forum member says ... "the RFL have a lot of questions to answer", and that may well include both current and former high ranking officials. At the same time that the above debacle was ongoing, owner candidates with substantial financial backing, rugby expertise and a plausible vision for the club were rejected by the RFL after they had been recommended as being the most credible future owners for the Bulls by successive administrators. Why was this? As for AC; things were different. The Spring 2019 deadline was looming. The RFL's chosen one appears to have done what may have been asked of him by the aforementioned 'puppet master', and moreover the club is still we understand in an extremely poor financial state, regardless of a new consortium or otherwise. Are the new 'consortium' a truly independent new broom with substantial financial clout, or are they just the next in line to do what they are told; i.e. not truly act in the interest of the Bulls fans and Bradfordians, and (and once again) merely act in the interests of an apparent 'puppet master'.

6) What have BMDC (Odsal's freeholder) done to impose their rights and formally query whether or not the head lessee (i.e the RFL) have complied with their onerous repair and maintenance obligations? The stadium post 2012 has been left to go to rack and ruin. Regardless of some statements to the contrary, let us be clear - Odsal, and in particular the stadium footprint, is a valuable asset. Will the Council act? What do Bradford rate payers think of this - get in contact with your local councillors and ask them to seek answers from the Council leader, Susan Hinchcliffe, and ask her to enquire what the hell the Council's Chief Executive (Kirsten England) has been doing about this.

We hear that there's more to come; a lot more, inc news of possible legal claims by staff etc etc.

There may of course be no puppet master, and there may be no game plan to make somebody a fortune out of Odsal. All we are trying to do, like many of us are, is trying 'to see the wood for the trees'.

As for who are the good folk (who appear to very thin on the ground) in all of this protracted soap opera /horror show, and who are the bad folk is presently still a matter of debate, but the answer may well materialise shortly as credible journos dig and dig.

Have a Bullish evening.

p.s. Did anybody else see the ground investigation test drillings going on at Odsal earlier in the year? Again ask your Councillor who sanctioned this work and what was it's purpose?

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:29 pm  

Suddenly LE have all this information. Almost as though they were given a printout from the RFL and had not done any digging of their own. Think another consolidation season and away from Bradford may be a season too far.
Can't help but wonder if we had held onto Chissy we could have been in the MPG.

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:31 pm  

nestegg wrote:

Many of you say there is more to come. There is.

Some apparent facts:

1) Pension scandal - the facts re the pension, and some other stuff is published in the League express online edition this evening. Some of their sources may, however, not be 100% reliable.

2) It appears that Chalmers (who somewhat surprisingly is still reasonably well thought of on this sub-forum) may have been thrown under a bus and apparently the RFL finally (and after 'appointing' him as the chosen one in 2017) deemed him to no longer be a 'fit and proper' owner. That said; was AC ever a fit and proper owner?

3) The Bulls need an owner with real cash to invest. We (yes there a few of us!) have reason to believe that the new regime is unlikely to provide such cash, and may be no more than a convenient sticking plaster solution to temporarily keep the wolves at bay. Some say a certain ex RFL official may be pulling many (if not all) the strings here. Some are saying that the new shareholder (or one of them) is ex Wakey's Chris Brereton. If you look him up on Companies House Chris is not a man of substance. He conveniently appears to look like an AC#2. Is that good for the club? Who else (if anybody) is part of the so called new consortium, and most importantly what cash will they put down on the table. Did the new consortium even do any thorough due diligence. After all it is rumoured that they may have to stump up >£500K for the club's present debts. As said earlier might the new consortium be no more than a sticking plaster solution for the club's apparent 'puppet master'.

4) Would we buy a season ticket based on today's 'news'. No.

5) In any case, part 1 of the grand plan is in place and looking back on the forum over the past 12-18 months on topics relating to Odsal and it's 'future' it seems that a forum member - Belcki - got it right. The Bulls left Odsal shortly after the RFL's head lease obligation to have to play rugby league at Odsal Stadium expired in Spring of this year. The facts appear to indicate that in circa 2012 the RFL noticed prior to acquiring the Odsal head lease that there was no obligation for rugby league to be played at Odsal post Spring 2019. So was it therefore a mere coincidence that the Bulls has thereafter been repeatedly handed over by the RFL to people without sufficient experience and finance to run a club of the Bulls stature and potential, and owners who were then harshly and repeatedly sanctioned by the RFL (e.g. financial constraints and unduly harsh points deductions) in order that it was inevitable that such 'owners' were all going to fail; and they did. As another forum member says ... "the RFL have a lot of questions to answer", and that may well include both current and former high ranking officials. At the same time that the above debacle was ongoing, owner candidates with substantial financial backing, rugby expertise and a plausible vision for the club were rejected by the RFL after they had been recommended as being the most credible future owners for the Bulls by successive administrators. Why was this? As for AC; things were different. The Spring 2019 deadline was looming. The RFL's chosen one appears to have done what may have been asked of him by the aforementioned 'puppet master', and moreover the club is still we understand in an extremely poor financial state, regardless of a new consortium or otherwise. Are the new 'consortium' a truly independent new broom with substantial financial clout, or are they just the next in line to do what they are told; i.e. not truly act in the interest of the Bulls fans and Bradfordians, and (and once again) merely act in the interests of an apparent 'puppet master'.

6) What have BMDC (Odsal's freeholder) done to impose their rights and formally query whether or not the head lessee (i.e the RFL) have complied with their onerous repair and maintenance obligations? The stadium post 2012 has been left to go to rack and ruin. Regardless of some statements to the contrary, let us be clear - Odsal, and in particular the stadium footprint, is a valuable asset. Will the Council act? What do Bradford rate payers think of this - get in contact with your local councillors and ask them to seek answers from the Council leader, Susan Hinchcliffe, and ask her to enquire what the hell the Council's Chief Executive (Kirsten England) is doing about this.

We hear that there's more to come; a lot more, inc news of possible legal claims by staff etc etc.

There may of course be no puppet master, and there may be no game plan to make somebody a fortune out of Odsal. All we are trying to do, like many of us are, is trying 'to see the Wood for the Trees'.

As for who are the good folk (who appear to very thin on the ground) in all of this protracted soap opera /horror show, and who are the bad folk is presently still a matter of debate, but the answer may well materialise shortly as credible journos dig and dig.

Have a Bullish evening.

p.s. Did anybody else see the ground investigation test drillings going on at Odsal earlier in the year? Again ask your Councillor who sanctioned this work and what was it's purpose?

I'm not saying what you're saying is true or not, but I don't think anyone wants to go through this again. I remember "Belcki"'s postings. They kept referring to "we" too and I don't think ever answered the question of who "we" refers to in your post? You're clearly the same person. Do people a favour and avoid the inevitable arguments between fans in the same boat as each other and just be clear as to who "we" means? All the Bradford (Dewsbury?) fans are in this together at the end of the day. Let's not start in-fighting when people have enough to fret about.

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:37 pm  

I sussed this was the same poster from last time from the ‘we understand’ like they are the head of the illuminati... jeez. It despite registering a new account they reference their old account.

Did you forget your password or are you the vice man of the mysterious group?

In fairness to you some of what you say may well be true and we should be knocking on the doors of the council but myself, along with a lot of bulls fans these days just don’t care that much anymore. If we have a team in February, greats beans I’ll see you there. If not, oh well. The world keeps spinning.

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:50 pm  

Fair point re what you say above and WE take your reasonable concerns on board.

'We' have clearly taken Belcki in to our widened fold; she is aligned to the Council and her and fellow council folk were (and still are) concerned about what the hell has been, and still is, going on at Odsal - one of the region's most prized assets; well at least in terms of potential, albeit Sport England as a statutory consultee will rightfully have something to say about Odsal's future. She and her pals also previously queried whether or not AC really was (as many had hoped) the new Bulls messiah. Maybe he was, and is he really gone for good!?

Thank you anyhow for your positive comments to date.

We accept that some members just don't want to hear any inference that all may not be fine and dandy with our club. Well they don't have to follow such threads as this one then do they? In excess of 1000 posts on this topic is one hell of a lot; so some people must at least be intrigued.

We also sincerely hope the Bulls has a team next year, but as things stand we wouldn't bet on it.

'We' now includes some investigative journo types, and when, or if, we go to print or pass on a story (if there is one!) and robust evidence to a credible outlet then you may come across it. and not in a RL rag.

In the immediate term, given that some of us are 'whistleblowers; inc from within the RFL and BMDC, then we trust you can understand and respect why we will not at this stage (or possibly ever) reveal and/or confirm our identity. To function effectively as an open forum then this site must wherever necessary be able to maintain anonymity.

Re: Leaving Odsal and future in general : Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:14 pm  

nestegg wrote:

Fair point re what you say above and WE take your reasonable concerns on board.

'We' have taken Belcki in to our widened fold; she is aligned to the Council and her and fellow council folk were (and still are) concerned about what the hell has been, and still is, going on at Odsal - one of the region's most prized assets; well at least in terms of potential, albeit Sport England as a statutory consultee will rightfully have something to say about Odsal's future.She also queried whether or not AC really was (as many seem to want hope) the new messiah.

Thank you for your positive comments. We also sincerely hope the Bulls has a team next year, but as things stand we wouldn't bet on it.

'We' now include some investigative journo types, and when, or if, we go to print you will be informed.

Let's work together. That OK?

Of course it's OK. So please answer the question. Who is "we"? It's a simple question that presumably has a simple answer.