Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:02 pm  

I tend to agree with Northern Relic when he says a Supporters Trust is, or can be, a conduit for the current ownership of the Club.

I am not sure how the Warrington model works, but certainly it seems to work in tandem with the current board and the supporters.

I believe Supporters Direct, the umbrella for all current supporters trusts are having a conference at the Hull KR ground in January. Maybe the Bullbuilder trust should arrange a delegation to attend.
Simon(Foster) actually lives in Beverley so he may be able to attend as well, maybe someone also needs to ask Warrington and I believe Widnes how they operate their Trust in tandem with their clubs.

Whichever way it deserves a chance to make a difference, as the ethos of the trust is ,like a workers cooperative, with equality of Direction and a Not for profit organisation.

As Adey says though their are a good few pitfalls, and it wouldn't be easy. But as Bulls fans we probably wouldn't expect anything less. Baptisms of fire are a regular occurrence.

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:19 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Well, it's Friday afternoon. What time is the positive news foretold by Mick G going to be announced? Any predictions?

Yes, I predict there will be no good news today, from Mick G or anyone else.


And furthermore, if anyone does claim to have some definitive news from behind the scenes it will only be from one side of one of the camps and so as a rounded and full explanation of anything it will be worth exactly the sum of Jack poop.




...depressed.

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:25 pm  

Addy it maybe rehashing over old ground, but thanks anyway, as those of us outside of the Bradford triangle tend to catch glimpses of each part of the crisis and so some still ask what happened to the £500k thinking it's still bashing around somewhere.

I'm sure the supporters trust could not compete against a money man, or even offer enough to buy the current club. But if it ever comes to Adminstration or Liquidation, could the supporters trust come in and by the bulls for say £1 and run it like the previous BOD's mentioned with cuts to Salaries and run at a break even level. Or at least appoint a new BOD to run it with that aim in mind?

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:49 pm  

A bit of background, picking up on Rarebreed's helpful suggestions.

The Supporters Trust (The Bradford Rugby League Supporters Society Ltd) was established with the sponsorship of Supporters Direct, of which the Trust was a member and various of whose events Trust officers attended. There was liaison with SD over the 2012 troubles period, and agian during 2013 regarding potential supporter investment in the club.

It was very much modelled on the Warrington Trust, various of whose officials provided considerable assistance in the initial stages and came over to address meetings and provide the benefit of their experience. We had more recent involvement with Warrington regarding the Bullbuilder Hardhsip Fund, to which the Warrington club made a substantial and generous contribution. Their finance manager, with whom I dealt at the time, was also involved wirh their Trust, and we had some useful discussions.

The Warrington Trust, through its "Squadbuilder" activity (hence..."Bullbuilder") has primarily been a vehicle for raising additional funds for their academy and youth development. As was Bullbuilder, until the troubles overtook all that, and then that role was not deemed necessary by the OK regime. From talking to some of their people, it was also seen as being there in case things went badly wrong at the club - something they have not expected in recent years, with their club being nowdays on a firm financial footing with a wealthy backer at need.

Picking up on the recent post from bewareshadows (posted as I was typing this) - the issue would not be the initial purchase price, but funding the significant ongoing operating expenditure - just as before. Bear in mind, you'd be starting again from scratch with sponsorship and other commercial income, and who would be available and prepared to run the show (and for free) anyway? Assuming that the club would survive another insolvency and remain in SL, which I personally doubt very much indeed.

The issue has never been about setting up and running a Trust, or what it mght be able to do (and the limitations, as Mild Rover so wisely observed). It has been, and remains, about there being enough dedicated and committed individuals prepared to devote the necessary time and effort and expertise to operate the Trust, carry out fundraising activities, and generally to enable it to fulfil people's expectations of it. And then, for enough of the rest of the fanbase to support its activity - whatever form that might take - financially.

A handful of volunteers, in full-time work, is not enough. Never was, and never will be. Therein lies the challenge, if it is indeed to have any opportunity to make a difference. Its basically down to whether enough supporters are ready, willing and able to step up to the task.

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:09 pm  

It's worth noting that that even clubs in the 3rd tier (Championship 1) get an annual allocation of SKY MONEY.

It's just that you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

Clubs like Oxford, Hemel, Gloucestershire & London Skolars could be asked how they go about things.

If Bradford start again at that level they would have the benefit of likely the biggest crowds in the division and a thriving local amateur / junior game in the area.

Bradford would likely be looking at promotion in the first season for sure. The snowball would be off and rolling (but in a disciplined and self-sustaining way).

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:16 pm  

Pro rl in Bradford wouldn't survive in the championship or lower. Supporters would leave in droves, there would be few interested sponsors. The amateur game would die within five years. Our only hope is a rich person taking over the club. Tbh, such is the way the club has been torn apart since 2006 I have almost lost interest in them. Just going from disaster to disaster.

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:54 pm  

Bulls4Champs wrote:

Tbh, such is the way the club has been torn apart since 2006 I have almost lost interest in them. Just going from disaster to disaster.

You're not alone feeling like that mate. I'm been supporting this club for over 20 years and usually miss few games in a season but I've just about reached my limit right now. I can cope without the trophies and the success but this once great club in fast becoming a complete laughing stock. Those responsible for this mess should bloody well hang their heads in shame. How hard is it to find some owners who can run the club properly?

Very disillusioned right now, I just hope whatever our future may be..it is sorted sooner rather than later.

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:22 pm  

Bully_Boxer wrote:

How hard is it to find some owners who can run the club properly?

Indeed

But maybe the question should be rephrased "how hard is it to find some owners who are prepared and able to put their hands deep in their pockets year on year? And in the face of flak from the supporters - the lack of enough of whom is the underlying root of the problem - when the results are not to their liking?"

Mild Rover got it spot-on earlier. Its bloody hard to run a sports club as a professional business standing on its own feet financially, when the owners a considerable number of your competitors are heavily subsidising THEIR clubs.

Many fans, and most of those of other clubs, derided Caisley when he came up with the "People's Team" epiphet. Personally, I cringed at it. Yet, in the dreadful launch and poor delivery of the message, the underlying message itself was lost: without a rich backer, the club relied on the people who supported it, and the wider community, to pay for it. Caisley played hell at the people of Bradford in late 2004 for not supporting the club in sufficient numbers. As was so often the case, the delivery of his message was counterproductive, but the underlying concern was well-founded. I suspect he had grown pretty desperate by then. In fact, I am bloody sure he had.

It might be worth revisiting some of what he said then, to see if it is still relevant:

...Clearly, the business cannot continue to sustain such losses year on year and there will be a need to cut overheads and/or increase turnover. Of course, the biggest expense is the player wage bill, but in sport it is not just as simple as reducing those costs. The Club needs to remain competitive which requires that it has good quality players and a good junior development structure, all of which comes at a price. Therefore, there will be a push to increase the number of spectators attending games in 2005 and our commercial sales department will be tasked with the job of securing additional inward investment.

The fact remains that if Bradford wants a rugby league team to remain at the top of the sport and the pride of the city in terms of the prestige and the recognition which we bring then the people of Bradford will have to begin supporting the Club in ever increasing, not decreasing, numbers. I suspect that supporters will have to understand and accept that success can only be maintained for so long as the support remains high...

Regardless of who is to blame, we can all see the consequences of it not being a "people's team". And what he said became a self-fulfilling prophecy, with reducing crowds meaning less finance available meaning worsening performances on the park meaning reducing crowds meaning less finance available...

It's 2012 redux. Short of a sugar daddy, I can offer no easy solutions. Can anyone?

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:27 pm  

Some worrying tweets coming from some Bulls players this afternoon...

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:54 pm  

Wooden Stand wrote:

It's worth noting that that even clubs in the 3rd tier (Championship 1) get an annual allocation of SKY MONEY.

It's just that you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

Clubs like Oxford, Hemel, Gloucestershire & London Skolars could be asked how they go about things.

If Bradford start again at that level they would have the benefit of likely the biggest crowds in the division and a thriving local amateur / junior game in the area.

Bradford would likely be looking at promotion in the first season for sure. The snowball would be off and rolling (but in a disciplined and self-sustaining way).

A good post and personally I feel that it is the way forward.

However I would suggest a couple of things. I feel the club should resurface in the 2nd tier under special dispensation. It would mean maybe just 1 year away from SL but with a clean slate and with other Yorkshire teams in that Division many derbies and continued interest for the long suffering fans.

Where would the club play though? $64,000 Question.

Remember Glasgow Rangers were demoted 3 Divisions & yet their attendances haven't suffered too much and the new Board recruited cheaply - building the squad gradually BUT making PROFITS.