Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:44 am  

Weren't those also the years of £60 season tickets?

They were. I'm well aware of the story, "those of us who were on the terraces" includes me. But these are the Leeds games we're talking about. They really were big crowds. The only ST holders who weren't there were the ones desperate to reserve their spot for the Wakefield and Salford teams of those years whilst preferring to eschew the Leeds game.

Smallest listed attendance in 2011 was 12k, so assume that's roughly how many ST holders there were. The difference between that figure and the announced attendance is roughly the same as last year's SL average crowd. It would be easy to say they were all Leeds fans too, but they don't go to the similarly distant Huddersfield to see a better game in those numbers.

By all means explain it away, but there really aren't many teams capable of doing that. Crowds are massively down, crowds can be massively up when the situation demands it. Both sides of this story are correct, it is one side saying the other is nonsense that I have issue with.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:45 am  

You can't live in the past!
It is depressing seeing where we are at, at present.

We need investment to get out of this hole.

You would have thought we may have had maybe a quality signing by now to try and push the season ticket sales along.

We need a scrum half, a couple of bad ass props and possibly a strong 2nd hooker to get near promotion next year.

It makes me sick using Leigh as an example but stupid Derek is putting his money where his mouth is with regards to 2016.

We can have the good times back and make a big return on investment but the capital has to be put in, in the first place.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:16 am  

Leigh are playing a very dangerous game with their current model, so I wouldn't use them as a viable comparison.
Not running a reserves side and hinging your promotional hopes on players you might not even be able to fit under the cap are not exactly the sort of decisions I would want my club to be making.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:23 am  

bowlinboy wrote:

You can't live in the past!
It is depressing seeing where we are at, at present.

We need investment to get out of this hole.

You would have thought we may have had maybe a quality signing by now to try and push the season ticket sales along.

We need a scrum half, a couple of bad ass props and possibly a strong 2nd hooker to get near promotion next year.

It makes me sick using Leigh as an example but stupid Derek is putting his money where his mouth is with regards to 2016.

We can have the good times back and make a big return on investment but the capital has to be put in, in the first place.

People tend to forget we've already signed another half for next year in Thomas. All articles re him have named him as a half despite his best position seeming to be fullback. I think we'll struggle to find a scrum half who's a genuine improvement on the players already at the club and who we can accommodate under the cap. I feel we can take it as a given that there wont be rush for anyone to take sjelka of our hands. Think we'll see a couple of props coming in (Clarke from Donny seems likely and maybe matt ryan as a prop/2nd row if we can free a quota spot). Cant really see another hooker inbound given we released Conroy. Suspect Halafihi will get more gametime off the bench next year, albeit it was bizarre he didn't get the bench spot in MPG ahead of Baille.

I wonder if we fail to find a scrum half if we'll look at a) slimming Addy down in off season to play there or b) move Mullaney there permanently with Thomas/Clare taking over at FB.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:21 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

It is stupid to say we have been in terminal decline, given the worst we have been is runners up in Championship with the best crowds in the division. There are a lot of teams who would like to be equally terminally declined. Our undisputed decline has, if anything only served to underline the potential, given the crowds - paying full SL whack with no discounts - that we have been able to maintain in 2015.

Which clubs? Name them! No club, ever, has been where we were in SL so good luck with that.

What are you on about? I am not "wishing" in any shape or form. It's nothing to do with what I wish". I am making observations as I see it, and they seem pretty much factual to me. Given the money a successful Bulls is worth to the game, I'd say that our health is probably THE most important issue for the RFL today. The halcyon days of 20K crowds and Bullmania in front of the adoring Sky cameras are something I suspect the RFL would like back. But, I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe Wakefield will suit them just as well.

10 years ago, Bradford won it's last Grand Final. Since then, the club has gone backwards at an alarming rate. Year on year, we've finished further and futher down the league ladder. Crowds have fallen at the same rate, despite some artifical inflation at certain points. I remember when the cheap season tickets were first announced and a bit of information came out of the club that there had never been more than around 4k season tickets sold every year, even during the glory years. So, rather than it being the case that our current fan base shows potential, it in fact shows the hardcore of Bradford support that has been there through most of SL. As for how long those fans will stay and continue to pay SL prices for Championship rugby is hard to guess.

You keep talking about a sucessful Bulls, but that is not even on the horizon. Even if we'd won the MPG and were planning for a season in SL, there's very little chance that the current side would not find itself in the middle 8's next year and if they survived for a 2nd SL season they'd probably be still in that middle 8 group for a number of seasons as there is a gap between each of the groups of 8 that will take some major miracle working to overcome.

The trouble is, we're between a rock and a hard place. The double bust of recent years has left a lot of floating fans soured on the sport and the club and a lot of the remaining fans are unwilling to shell out on a season ticket for, what is in a lot of eyes, a 23 round pre-season.

[Bulliac]

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:43 pm  

23 match pre-season, well yeah, sums up life in the championship, I guess.

I suspect it does put many off. It doesn't dim the potential though, and that is what the Bulls provide - all the big crowds of days gone by are still, potentially, there for the future. Bradford is a big city and is in the game's heartland, I agree with FA, the potential of the Bulls is enormous and a resurgent Bulls would be an tremendous boost to super League and to the game - I also can't see any other club in the nether regions with anything even approaching that same potential.

I don't doubt we'll be back, though not sure when to be honest. Maybe when the rules are next changed ? Maybe we'll get lucky before then - the club certainly have to play up the chances, in public, at least, it would be commercial suicide not to. One thing is for sure - it won't be any easier next or future seasons.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:10 pm  

bowlinboy wrote:

You can't live in the past!
It is depressing seeing where we are at, at present.

We need investment to get out of this hole.

You would have thought we may have had maybe a quality signing by now to try and push the season ticket sales along.

We need a scrum half, a couple of bad ass props and possibly a strong 2nd hooker to get near promotion next year.

It makes me sick using Leigh as an example but stupid Derek is putting his money where his mouth is with regards to 2016.

We can have the good times back and make a big return on investment but the capital has to be put in, in the first place.

But this is just drunken pub talk, with respect. What on earth is the point of demanding "capital being put in"? There are vociferous numpties in all clubs from the soccer Premiership down to lower leagues and they all incessantly demand "investment" by which they mean they demand whoever owns the club just spends all their assets in buying buying buying buying, until there's nothing left. And yes we all know we'd be better if we filled the key positions with world class players but we have about as much chance of buying the world's leading players as I have of landing on Pluto. Maybe more.

If you can find Roman Abramovich or a Korean magnate this may work but we are in Bradford and you are wasting your time as IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. You need to get the shoite about "investment" out of your head. You are dreaming.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:15 pm  

roofaldo2 wrote:

..As for how long those fans will stay and continue to pay SL prices for Championship rugby is hard to guess.

No it isn't, the shelf-life is highly limited. We will not survive long in the Championship. I can already feel the vaseline at the edge of the slippery slope under my toes. It can work for small town clubs. It can't work for us.

roofaldo2 wrote:

.You keep talking about a sucessful Bulls, but that is not even on the horizon.

Beg to differ, we have had a successful season last in, oh, when was it Ah yes - 2015.

roofaldo2 wrote:

The trouble is, we're between a rock and a hard place. ...

As I keep saying, in my own way

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:16 pm  

what I am saying is unless a few more quality players are brought in next year there is no chance..

thats not vexed up pub talk thats standing on the terraces watching drivel like Featherstone at home.

we need to get 20% more out of players isn't going to cut it if the players aren't good enough in the first place.

buy a few better players you will sell a few more tickets, turn some performances out you will get better gates, get back in super League you can expect a lot more turn over its not drivel its business.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:27 pm  

bowlinboy wrote:

what I am saying is unless a few more quality players are brought in next year there is no chance..

thats not vexed up pub talk thats standing on the terraces watching drivel like Featherstone at home.

we need to get 20% more out of players isn't going to cut it if the players aren't good enough in the first place.

buy a few better players you will sell a few more tickets, turn some performances out you will get better gates, get back in super League you can expect a lot more turn over its not drivel its business.

So now you have dropped your suggestion that from somewhere we magic up "capital", and now you're saying we need to sign "a few more quality players". Because this will sell "a few more tickets". You haven't really thought the maths through, have you?