Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:09 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Beg to differ, we have had a successful season last in, oh, when was it Ah yes - 2015.

Eh?

So the same person that recently said that he would "not accept, accepting failure" is now trying to tell people that 2015 was a success????

In what way exactly?

Seriously FA, have you any idea how much you insult the intelligence of your fellow Bradford fans when you come out with this claptrap? Given that you want them to accept this view is ridiculous.

How was 2015 a success exactly? If 2015 was a "success" then we are saying that the brief for the season was less than what we achieved. Despite none of us knowing exactly what the expectations were, it is safe to say that finishing second in a two team league then failing in the play-offs was a bit less than what the club were looking for.

Success? Lay off the bevvy FA.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:38 pm  

It is my considered opinion that if we'd had a coach with a Scooby Doo we'd be up.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:27 pm  

Can we at least look on the bright side for a minute. We didn't have a spare 150 grand to spend on Joe Westerman

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:35 am  

mystic eddie wrote:

Eh?

So the same person that recently said that he would "not accept, accepting failure" is now trying to tell people that 2015 was a success????

In what way exactly?

You seemingly cannot grasp that "successful" is a relative term. By any reasonable measure, 2015 was a successful season, despite teh crushing disappointment of narrowly falling at the last hurdle.

mystic eddie wrote:

Seriously FA, have you any idea how much you insult the intelligence of your fellow Bradford fans when you come out with this claptrap? Given that you want them to accept this view is ridiculous.

I simply state my view, which is fair do's, even raving nincompoops like you have just the same right. "Want"? Rubbish! I say my piece, people can ignore it/take it/leave it, I really don't care, it's just a random discussion ffs

mystic eddie wrote:

How was 2015 a success exactly?

So many ways. Some random examples: crowds; table position; financial stability; best player retention; commercial progress; making the MPG. But of course, you know this, so it's weird you ask.

mystic eddie wrote:

If 2015 was a "success" then we are saying that the brief for the season was less than what we achieved.

Eh? That is gibberish. If it hides a lucid point, then no doubt you will clarify.

mystic eddie wrote:

Despite none of us knowing exactly what the expectations were, it is safe to say that finishing second in a two team league then failing in the play-offs was a bit less than what the club were looking for.

Finishing second, while extremely creditable for a scratch squad, which rarely hit its straps for 80 minutes, was not relevant unless it had prevented us making the MPG but it didn't.

Don't be daft, we all know exactly what the expectations were. To qualify for the MPG.
We all know what our ambition was: to win it. My expectation was that we would lose it. (In the end, exceptional circumstances conspired to present us with a great opportunity, that we blew, and which may not arise again, but that is another story).

In your way, you are trying to say that your sole definition of "success" was promotion or bust. Anything less by your definition is "failure". Most rational people can understand that whilst we had a successful season, it could have been more successful. If you are having trouble with "success" as a relative concept, then I suggest you read up on the things that happened in our last few seasons, and try to work out why this season was a million times more successful than those. The penny may drop, you never know.

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:55 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I say my piece, people can ignore it/take it/leave it, I really don't care, it's just a random discussion ffs.

If only this were true. If anyone dares to disagree with you they get the usual argument, dissected bit by bit (as above) whilst you try to discredit them. If anyone dares to disagree with you they are a sitting duck, as people well know.

Eh? That is gibberish. If it hides a lucid point, then no doubt you will clarify.

The point I was making (hey! I can dissect a post too) is that the only way the season can be considered a "success" is if we over-achieved on expectation. We didn't.

We all know what our ambition was: to win it.

And we didn't. Therefore it was not a success.

Sugar-coat it all you like FA, last seasons "successful season" has now left us in a position where support is dwindling further, the gap between ourselves and promotion is bigger and our squad is likely to be weaker next season whilst we are still coached by a guy that most people think is incapable of the job and appears unwilling to learn from his mistakes.

[Bulliac]

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:49 am  

Was last season a successful one?

Mmm, I'd give qualified yes to that. I mean, whilst not remembering any hangovers from wild celebrations, we did negotiate a full season without going bust, and in fact we seem to have done well with financial backing. In general the club appears to be on a sounder financial footing than for some time. All pretty successful, I'd say.

On-field, we dropped divisions and entered our new place in life with a lot of new faces, leaving us with a fairly unsettled squad with a lot of the unknown about it. Our biggest competitors were also fully pro and had a decent quality, and maybe more importantly, settled team, so I'd have taken second position before the season started. I know it was only the second division but you can only beat what is in front of you, so again it's successfully negotiated, for me.

We did get second, and also managed a way through the eights and got into the final play-off game - which, imo, was something we hoped for, but which we were not favourites for. At the start of the season only the super optimistic would have expected a win in that game though, and Wakey, with all their off-field shenanigans tried hard to give us a chance, but at the final hurdle we failed to grasp it. So success tinged with disappointment.

My hope for next year is that everyone, including the coach, learns the lessons from last season. That would be another success!

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:57 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

You seemingly cannot grasp that "successful" is a relative term. By any reasonable measure, 2015 was a successful season, despite teh crushing disappointment of narrowly falling at the last hurdle.

I simply state my view, which is fair do's, even raving nincompoops like you have just the same right. "Want"? Rubbish! I say my piece, people can ignore it/take it/leave it, I really don't care, it's just a random discussion ffs

So many ways. Some random examples: crowds; table position; financial stability; best player retention; commercial progress; making the MPG. But of course, you know this, so it's weird you ask.

Eh? That is gibberish. If it hides a lucid point, then no doubt you will clarify.

Finishing second, while extremely creditable for a scratch squad, which rarely hit its straps for 80 minutes, was not relevant unless it had prevented us making the MPG but it didn't.

Don't be daft, we all know exactly what the expectations were. To qualify for the MPG.
We all know what our ambition was: to win it. My expectation was that we would lose it. (In the end, exceptional circumstances conspired to present us with a great opportunity, that we blew, and which may not arise again, but that is another story).

In your way, you are trying to say that your sole definition of "success" was promotion or bust. Anything less by your definition is "failure". Most rational people can understand that whilst we had a successful season, it could have been more successful. If you are having trouble with "success" as a relative concept, then I suggest you read up on the things that happened in our last few seasons, and try to work out why this season was a million times more successful than those. The penny may drop, you never know.

Success is indeed 'relative'. That is relative to the context of the competition. Not replacing a pathetic Wakefield team in SL has to be the first measure of success/failure.

Very entertaining but you're trying to sell a bucket with hole in it on the grounds that it's lighter to carry.

[Bulliac]

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:18 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

Success is indeed 'relative'. That is relative to the context of the competition. Not replacing a pathetic Wakefield team in SL has to be the first measure of success/failure.

Very entertaining but you're trying to sell a bucket with hole in it on the grounds that it's lighter to carry.

Your post suggests that we ought to have beaten Wakefield and not to have done so means we failed. Surely, that can only be the case if the means by which we would be replacing them in the higher tier were fair and equitable, when in truth, they were demonstrably not so?

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:09 pm  

mystic eddie wrote:

..
The point I was making (hey! I can dissect a post too) is that the only way the season can be considered a "success" is if we over-achieved on expectation. We didn't.

I would say that we did exceed expectations. At the start of the season I wouldn't have thought we'd be favourites to beat Leigh on their own ground to make the MPG, but that's exactly what we did. At the start of the season I wouldn't have thought there was any chance of thrashing a SL team in the playoffs, but we did. We put the millionaires of Salford to the sword.

You keep repeating "it was not a success" but omit that this is because the definition of "success" that you are using is a weird one, where only "promotion to SL" can be success, and anything else is failure.

I think the measure of a successful season is what I and others have explained, and clearly we did have one. Equally if you take the view that not being promoted means our season was a failure, then by your peculiar definition, you are right too, at least in your own head.

mystic eddie wrote:

Sugar-coat it all you like FA, last seasons "successful season" has now left us in a position where support is dwindling further, the gap between ourselves and promotion is bigger and our squad is likely to be weaker next season whilst we are still coached by a guy that most people think is incapable of the job and appears unwilling to learn from his mistakes.

What a breathtaking non sequitur! Last season was what it was, and can be judged (must be judged) once it finished. Things that may or may not happen in the future will not retrospectively alter a single thing that we did or that happened in season 2015. It is what it was, and forever will be. Like the Norwegian Blue, it is finished.

None of the things you predict have either happened yet, but if they do, it won't retrospectively make us less successful than we were. and if they don't, it won't make us more successful than we were.

Nobody says Lowes is the world's perfect coach, but overall and with qualifications, think he did very well, and indeed achieved the main "must-do" - getting us to the MPG.

Whatever mistakes he (undoubtedly) made, and whatever failings he (undoubtedly) may have, he proved himself the best in the Championship, in his rookie season. That doesn't qualify (to a reasonable person) as being "incapable of the job".

Re: Sorry Jimmy but...... : Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:20 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:

Success is indeed 'relative'. That is relative to the context of the competition. Not replacing a pathetic Wakefield team in SL has to be the first measure of success/failure.

I'm getting tired of this. Look, all the people who say" promotion=success, not getting promoted = failure" please leave the discussion.

We DID have a (very) successful season, which of course could have been better, and yes it was spoiled by failing to beat a vulnerable Wakefield on the day. Does that draw a thick black marker pen over everything else we achieved on and off the field in 2015? I think not. If you think yes, then great, but why are you in the discussion, if you genuinely believe that all those things are totally irrelevant to the question of to what extent we had a successful season?

I have ghost-written a book

The Bulls Season 2015 Review
by mystic eddie and maislebugs

Didn't get promotion.
The End.