[Bulliac]

Re: Where do we go from here? : Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:44 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Gates of what, where, though?

It isn't preferable to me at all, to me, we would have done a Park Avenue, and kept the name but changed the soul. We would no longer be the Bulls, and we would be playing out of Horsfall or somewhere, and to me there is no point in that. If others would be prepared to revert to basically watching a pub team then fine but not me.

I would very happily be a fan of teams like Batley, Dewsbury, Keighley or Fev if I lived in those places as they do great with the hands they're dealt. But not the Bulls.

You do Bulls/Northern a great disservice. Apart from a single season, Northern were never outside the top flight, and cyclically were a formidable team for much of their existence. But I followed them through plenty of thin as well as thick, and that wasn't the point. That was then, this is now, and if anybody should be a SL club, or a club like Leigh with genuine SL ambitions, then it's now us. If we are no longer trying, and want to descend to the bottom, then that doesn't wash with me. I'd much rather watch a team at the same bottom level but with 10% of the resources actual or potential and working its balls off to be the best it can.

But I am not sure. I honestly fear the writing is on the wall. I don't see a way out of it. Promotion is a distant pipedream this year and I don't think we'll survive next year.

Oh, where to begin?

I'm not sure what your first question is - if you mean in a future where we remain in division2, which is maybe the most likely, I'd guess we could get around 2k, for a reasonable team [ie middle to top] but obviously it's a guess and, I admit, we're in the land of who knows?

No, I'm not really doing anyone a disservice. For the greatest part of Northern's existence there were no divisions, just Yorks and Lancs leagues all shown in one gigantic, 30 to 32 team division, in which the club, like many others went up and down like the proverbial bride's nightie. Truth is, over many years, whilst we certainly had our moments, we were never a Wigan, Saints or whisper it softly, a Leeds. We were in good company, of course, as neither were anyone else, even though teams like Huddersfield and yes, Hunslet, had their shortish periods of dominance. There was a brief flirtation with two divisions in the early sixties, but it never really took on until the early seventies when we were promoted to the first division in its second season.

where did I suggest we shouldn't try? I only mention that as a viable way of running the club for an owner who may not be keen on actually investing sufficient money to make improvement possible. I would never suggest that it should be done. I am a fan, after all! My personal belief is that you can only get back to the very top by investing cash though our owner talks of being businesslike - I'd rather carry on as we are than risk losing the club [again] though.

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:52 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Very well put. Agree 100%. The point about the Sheffield game being a culmination of of problems that have been apparent since the beginning of last season is bang on.

I'd like to think that last week was rock bottom and we can draw a line under it. I'm doubtful.

I can't think of many or any instances where a team has been in terminal decline under a coach & the coach has turned it around. Sure, you are good enough to paper over the cracks.

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:01 am  

HamsterChops wrote:

I wouldn't underestimate Dewsbury. A few of their young lads and reserves look like decent players, and given a chance to step up from reserves footy to play a once mighty team will be motivaton enough for them. Likes of Brad Delaney and Jack Teanby especially that have come through their reserves look very good players.

Unless we show significant improvement, I think Dewsbury will turn us over.

Its a difficult one to call.Not the place to go looking for gaining consistency.The pitch dictates the game 70/80 meter sets will have you over the try line not short of it.Requires a gameplan that must be adhered to,stray away from it and it will be costly.

Not a place for performances,its a grind out job to get the victory. The victory being the goal regardless of performance or result.

Good luck.

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:54 am  

Away against Dewsbury, on paper at least, we should win with ease.
Dewsbury did push Leigh for a lot of their game but fell away towards the end. However that team has been hit with injuries and are down to bare bones. The question is "do the Bradford players have the mental strength to get out of their current funk" and I'm not sure they do and a lot of that's down to the coach and his staff and I really think there needs to be a change for any real improvement to happen

Re: Where do we go from here? : Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:53 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

No, I'm not really doing anyone a disservice. For the greatest part of Northern's existence there were no divisions, just Yorks and Lancs leagues all shown in one gigantic, 30 to 32 team division, in which the club, like many others went up and down like the proverbial bride's nightie. Truth is, over many years, whilst we certainly had our moments, we were never a Wigan, Saints or whisper it softly, a Leeds.

Thanks for the motivation. Been meaning to do this for a while.



The top ten most winningest sides of the winter era.

League games only, no play offs or cup competitions of any kind.

No Super League included at all, lest anyone think that unfairly skews the results our way. No lower divisions included at all, so time outside the top flight is thrown away as irrelevant. Bradford, who spent TWO seasons outside the top flight (one in the early sixties and one in the early seventies) are the team in that top five to have that happen to them the most.

I got the data from the Wikipedia season summary pages.

(And I had to write a program to do it. They got most of it from a bloke called Jim Smith who ran a website called The RL Vault in the nineties, and he got it from me after I tore up my 1995 Rothman's Yearbook as a young(er) 'un to scan the data and OCR it - there's a moral about backups in there somewhere).

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:07 pm  

Forgot to mention, I sorted it by number of games played. There were large numbers of seasons where clubs arranged their own fixtures (!) and could play a very different number of times within the same season. But whichever way you look at it, the phrase "Big 4" existed for a reason.

[Bullseye]

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:18 pm  

Surprising stats. I wouldn't have put us 3rd. Maybe in the top 8.

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:29 pm  

In raw number of wins we're actually second behind Wigan, at least in that data. Another reason I didn't sort it by wins though is 1901-02. The top teams of the previous year had a brief strop about the YSL and LSL competitions and were in a separate league of their own. Wigan, Leeds and Saints were all in their respective LSL and YSL leagues whilst Bradford were in the breakaway comp. There's no results data for those comps though, nor is there anything but the number of points in their final tables. All three did well though and with Wigan and Saints having at least twenty wins each and Saints getting around fifteen. That does put Leeds ahead of us for those winter years and Wigan further ahead. But not Saints. I remember doing this twenty years or so ago though and I knew we were up there.

In raw number of wins we're actually second behind Wigan, at least in that data. Another reason I didn't sort it by wins though is 1901-02. The top teams of the previous year had a brief strop about the YSL and LSL competitions and were in a separate league of their own. Wigan, Leeds and Saints were all in their respective LSL and YSL leagues whilst Bradford were in the breakaway comp. There's no results data for those comps though, nor is there anything but the number of points in their final tables. All three did well though and with Wigan and Saints having at least twenty wins each and Saints getting around fifteen. That does put Leeds ahead of us for those winter years and Wigan further ahead. But not Saints. I remember doing this twenty years or so ago though and I knew we were up there.

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:41 pm  

Dewsbury away & where do we go from here - Bulls to win by 48 - 0 following a scintillating display of attacking rugby backed up by a tough & aggressive defence. Then unbeaten for the remaining games of the season.

[Bullseye]

Re: Where do we go from here? Dewsbury Away. : Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:43 pm  

I’ll have a pint of what you’re having!