Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 7:44 am  

mystic eddie wrote:

Socialism is a dangerous ideal. I find it odd that some Labour voters liken Theresa May to Kim Jong-Un. Corbyns policies are far closer to Communist North Korea than May will ever be.

A Tory landslide may well accelerate Labour change and stop the SNP juggernaut. A win win IMO. I, for one would take 5 years of Tories if it led to a better Labour Party and a silenced SNP.

As dangerous an ideal as fascism. As both parties have now abandoned the centre ground, for differing reasons - to get elected, the Tories just have to be slightly more left wing than UKIP and the BNP. Labour don't have that option as they can't say "vote for us as we're slightly more right wing than the Communist party".

I find it odd that you don't get the point about the Supreme leader, Kim Jong-May. As she acts more & more like a dictator, strong, stable, suppressing free speech, limiting privacy, crushing dissent, from both within & without her party, reducing workers rights - Kim Jong-un was the most current Dictator available to compare her to. Policy-wise, I agree with you she should be compared to Franco or Mussolini but General May or Maysollini don't quite work the same and isn't as recognisable. That's all there is to that really.

[Bullseye]

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 8:06 am  

roger daly wrote:

Can anybody answer me this question

When you see Corbyn on TV, does anybody think " Do you know what I think this guy will make a good prime minister, I'm gonna vote for his lot"

I know what you mean. I’m not confident in him or in a lot of his front bench colleagues (McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry) they come over poorly, can’t connect with people outside their immediate circle and keep making gaffes. Having said that a lot of the policies make sense, e.g. increasing the tax take to fund public services, re-nationalising the railways etc. Sadly though they’ll never be put into practice because the electorate don’t like him. There’s no arguing against that.

I do know that voting for May would be like pooping on my own doorstep. 5 years of unchallenged hardline Conservative government will ruin public services.

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 11:34 am  

roger daly wrote:

Can anybody answer me this question

When you see Corbyn on TV, does anybody think " Do you know what I think this guy will make a good prime minister, I'm gonna vote for his lot"

As Clement Attlee said "I believe that the foundation of democratic liberty is a willingness to believe that other people may perhaps be wiser than oneself." Probably beyond Teresa May's comprehension.

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 11:48 am  

Bullseye wrote: I know what you mean. I’m not confident in him or in a lot of his front bench colleagues (McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry) they come over poorly, can’t connect with people outside their immediate circle and keep making gaffes. Having said that a lot of the policies make sense, e.g. increasing the tax take to fund public services, re-nationalising the railways etc. Sadly though they’ll never be put into practice because the electorate don’t like him. There’s no arguing against that. I do know that voting for May would be like pooping on my own doorstep. 5 years of unchallenged hardline Conservative government will ruin public services. I don't think people solely vote on personality. It has an effect, but isn't a deciding factor IMO. Problem is, if you love Corbyn, you'll love his front bench, if you don't, you'll hate his front bench. Too many similar people appealing to one minority group. You mention the policies. No one thinks more money for NHS, schools, nationalising the railways, more police is a bad thing. The problem Labour have is their ideas of how to pay for all of it. They just seem to be the party/politics of envy. I.E Hate the rich. Taxing/hating the rich whatever you want to call it, won't bring any where near enough money to pay for all the above. Even corporation Tax, just because you increase it doesn't mean it will bring more money as it says in this article. The Tories cut it, yet it brought in more hard cash. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39869118 I think people forget just how crappy it was for people in the jobs market just before the Tories got in 2010. The jobs market was awful. Whatever you think about the Tories, while they've been in charge, employment has gone up. Whether that's down to them or not is opinion. But people just don't trust Labour to get their sums right, and with something as unpredictable as corporation tax, people don't want their jobs being risked if it doesn't bring in enough money to pay for their shopping list, or if companies decide to move elsewhere or let people go due to the tax increase.

Bullseye wrote: I know what you mean. I’m not confident in him or in a lot of his front bench colleagues (McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry) they come over poorly, can’t connect with people outside their immediate circle and keep making gaffes. Having said that a lot of the policies make sense, e.g. increasing the tax take to fund public services, re-nationalising the railways etc. Sadly though they’ll never be put into practice because the electorate don’t like him. There’s no arguing against that. I do know that voting for May would be like pooping on my own doorstep. 5 years of unchallenged hardline Conservative government will ruin public services. I don't think people solely vote on personality. It has an effect, but isn't a deciding factor IMO. Problem is, if you love Corbyn, you'll love his front bench, if you don't, you'll hate his front bench. Too many similar people appealing to one minority group. You mention the policies. No one thinks more money for NHS, schools, nationalising the railways, more police is a bad thing. The problem Labour have is their ideas of how to pay for all of it. They just seem to be the party/politics of envy. I.E Hate the rich. Taxing/hating the rich whatever you want to call it, won't bring any where near enough money to pay for all the above. Even corporation Tax, just because you increase it doesn't mean it will bring more money as it says in this article. The Tories cut it, yet it brought in more hard cash. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39869118 I think people forget just how crappy it was for people in the jobs market just before the Tories got in 2010. The jobs market was awful. Whatever you think about the Tories, while they've been in charge, employment has gone up. Whether that's down to them or not is opinion. But people just don't trust Labour to get their sums right, and with something as unpredictable as corporation tax, people don't want their jobs being risked if it doesn't bring in enough money to pay for their shopping list, or if companies decide to move elsewhere or let people go due to the tax increase.

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 12:21 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

You mention the policies. No one thinks more money for NHS, schools, nationalising the railways, more police is a bad thing. The problem Labour have is their ideas of how to pay for all of it. They just seem to be the party/politics of envy. I.E Hate the rich. Taxing/hating the rich whatever you want to call it, won't bring any where near enough money to pay for all the above. Even corporation Tax, just because you increase it doesn't mean it will bring more money as it says in this article. The Tories cut it, yet it brought in more hard cash.

The financial state of the world & resultant austerity was caused by capitalist recklessness & greed, not policies of social justice. As a member of another political party I do not have to defend Labour.

[Bullseye]

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 1:00 pm  

Bull Mania wrote: You mention the policies. No one thinks more money for NHS, schools, nationalising the railways, more police is a bad thing. The problem Labour have is their ideas of how to pay for all of it. They just seem to be the party/politics of envy. I.E Hate the rich. Taxing/hating the rich whatever you want to call it, won't bring any where near enough money to pay for all the above. Even corporation Tax, just because you increase it doesn't mean it will bring more money as it says in this article. The Tories cut it, yet it brought in more hard cash. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39869118 The “politics of envy” line is always rolled out when someone suggests that the current situation is unfair. Fact of the matter is that the gap between rich and poor is growing. I’d say people should pay their fair share. I don’t think that’s the case at the moment. Bull Mania wrote: I think people forget just how crappy it was for people in the jobs market just before the Tories got in 2010. The jobs market was awful. Whatever you think about the Tories, while they've been in charge, employment has gone up. Whether that's down to them or not is opinion. But people just don't trust Labour to get their sums right, and with something as unpredictable as corporation tax, people don't want their jobs being risked if it doesn't bring in enough money to pay for their shopping list, or if companies decide to move elsewhere or let people go due to the tax increase. The reason the jobs market was bad before 2010 was down to the economic crash. Ironically brought about by policies that let financial markets have more freedom (started by Thatcher and carried on by Blair and Brown and supported by the conservatives like Cameron and Osborne). Labour had to bail out the banks in 2008. Hence the massive debt. There was no other option. Since 2010 borrowing has actually gone up. I’d say the conservatives have a totally undeserved reputation for looking after the economy. If Brexit turns out bad they could have caused the worst economic disaster to affect the UK in nearly 100 years. A lot of pressure is on them to do a good deal.

Bull Mania wrote: You mention the policies. No one thinks more money for NHS, schools, nationalising the railways, more police is a bad thing. The problem Labour have is their ideas of how to pay for all of it. They just seem to be the party/politics of envy. I.E Hate the rich. Taxing/hating the rich whatever you want to call it, won't bring any where near enough money to pay for all the above. Even corporation Tax, just because you increase it doesn't mean it will bring more money as it says in this article. The Tories cut it, yet it brought in more hard cash. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39869118 The “politics of envy” line is always rolled out when someone suggests that the current situation is unfair. Fact of the matter is that the gap between rich and poor is growing. I’d say people should pay their fair share. I don’t think that’s the case at the moment. Bull Mania wrote: I think people forget just how crappy it was for people in the jobs market just before the Tories got in 2010. The jobs market was awful. Whatever you think about the Tories, while they've been in charge, employment has gone up. Whether that's down to them or not is opinion. But people just don't trust Labour to get their sums right, and with something as unpredictable as corporation tax, people don't want their jobs being risked if it doesn't bring in enough money to pay for their shopping list, or if companies decide to move elsewhere or let people go due to the tax increase. The reason the jobs market was bad before 2010 was down to the economic crash. Ironically brought about by policies that let financial markets have more freedom (started by Thatcher and carried on by Blair and Brown and supported by the conservatives like Cameron and Osborne). Labour had to bail out the banks in 2008. Hence the massive debt. There was no other option. Since 2010 borrowing has actually gone up. I’d say the conservatives have a totally undeserved reputation for looking after the economy. If Brexit turns out bad they could have caused the worst economic disaster to affect the UK in nearly 100 years. A lot of pressure is on them to do a good deal.

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 2:36 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

A lot of pressure is on them to do a good deal.

We will not know for several parliaments whether a deal is good or bad. It will be dressed up in jingoistic terms by xenophobic small island Tories & their sycophantic toadies in the press. Not until the memoirs start coming out will the truth be told.

[Bullseye]

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 2:39 pm  

I think we'll know whether it's good or not pretty quickly based on the performance of the economy. If we're plunged into recession they'll never live it down. If it's boom times it'll be I told you so.

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 3:38 pm  

The biggest snow job that the Tories pull is to make everyone believe that if they vote Tory then they ARE Tory and as such will benefit from them. In fact the only people that benefit will have several millions in the bank. The CPS provided the best argument for not voting Tory after today's ruling regarding funding irregularities. If your on the inside they will look after you, if not it costs a six figure donation to join the club.

Re: O/T - General Election : Wed May 10, 2017 6:01 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I think we'll know whether it's good or not pretty quickly based on the performance of the economy. If we're plunged into recession they'll never live it down. If it's boom times it'll be I told you so.

Any recession will be the fault of those pesky forriners not brave Teresa.