Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:08 am  

Mick Cranes Sidestep wrote:

It wouldnt raise 1m, but might get you part way to the half million that is more pressing (if you believe the article in the T&A) and relieve the burden on fans who are being lumbered with the responsibility of finding some extra cash to save the club.

The point remains - what is causing the urgent need for 500k in the next 2 weeks?? You wage bill isn't that high

£500,000 divided between 20 players is only £25,000 each. I'm guessing there will be players on more than that, and £25,000 will be approximately the lower end figure.

EDIT: I'm being an idiot.... that's yearly

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:09 am  

Cibaman wrote:

If things are as bad as the Board suggest, it seems almost impossible that the club will be able to raise the necessary finance to keep club going. Administration seems to be the only realistic option. But how would it work? Not just in terms of insolvency law, but in the context of the RFL and SL's rules?

1) Would the club lose its license? A points deduction wouldnt have much impact without the threat of relegation.

2) Would the club be able or allowed to fulfill its fixtures this season? Would we face the prospect of playing out the season with juniors? At what point would it make more sense to withdraw from SL and start again next season?

3) Have we already received the Sky money for the season? What other sources of income would the club have, bearing in mind how much of our income is from season ticket holders and has been already received?

4) Does SL have the equivalent of football's "football creditors" rule?

5) Have we paid the final instalment of the Harris settlement? Could that have anything to do with the timing of this announcement

6) How would the lease with the RFL be affected? Would moving to VP be an option?

If the cash isn't there to open the ground and it doesn't come from outside the club (whether that's us, a shareholder or anyone else) administration doesn't solve anything as the administrator doesn't have any money. If the club can't fulfill it's fixtures it ceases to exist end of.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:11 am  

Anyone know of a fella called "Ralph Scott" just seen on the Bradford Bulls facebook page this guy has pledged £5000

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:12 am  

Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy wrote:

Cheers.

Given this I think the end game is the Bulls will move into administration very quickly after the Leeds game (providing you don't raise the £400k/£500k). The administrator won't have many valuable assets to sell to pay off any creditors, now the RFL own the long term lease of Odsal, although you may lose one of two of your good youngsters. The club will be liquidated very quickly and the RFL won't give cap exemptions to other clubs to get Bulls players, to stop the vultures and keep the squad together. A new company Bradford Bulls 2012 will be formed, more or less debt free and accepted to continue in SL in the way London was about 10 years ago. You'll get docked points for going into administration.

It seems pretty obvious that both the club and RFL knew this was going to happen months ago, hence the sale of the lease so BB 2012 had somewhere to play.

It's not that simple though a new company will still have no money. Season ticket money is not there. Players still need paying, with what??

Would old season tickets still be valid?

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:14 am  

In administration the administrator takes control of the clubs funds if you have no funds administration isnt an option really. From what I've read this seems to be more about lack of funds not debt, Have I got the right end of the story or am I completely wrong?

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:14 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Explained in that way, indeed I would not take issue with your argument. Nor can I take issue at all with you not rearing up unduly in response.

If we can agree that:

- my ongoing argument for years about the finances has been shown to have had more merit than you allowed; and

- your ongoing argument for years that Hood was being - well lets say at least extremely disingenuous, since I don't want to be accused of defamation - has been shown to have had more merit than I allowed,

Then we'll get along just fine?


And for the benefit of those others who are using this catastrophe to try and settle scores with me, I would just say that you were people who derided my argument that the root cause of a large part of our problems was lack of money. Whether, as e.g. Maislebugs in particular eloquently argued, the money issues could have been alleviated with a change of management is a separate and legitimate question - one I suspect we may soon learn the answer to. Whether, in going on ad nauseum about the financial situation I have been drawing attention to causes or just symptoms is probably central to any disagreement.

But, whilst both sides of the argument can and doubtless will claim they were right, rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic will not help our current situation, will it?

For the record, Adey predicted this to me some years ago (5 or more) when we spoke on the phone for the first time after many years of keyboard battling on this and the Rhinos forum. I'm genuinely sad to read this news this morning because, at the start of Super League, Bradford Bulls showed us all how it should be done. The club developed a certain razzamatazz that other clubs tried to emulate, but failed and Bradford was, for a time, the envy of Super League both on and off the pitch.

Since then, the decline has been there for all to see and it's a shame. To now ask supporters to stump up cash (more than many of them paid for their season tickets, it seems) is a little questionable to say the least. Surely, only a fool would part with money now, given the position that Hood and his predecessors have put the club in.

It's a big shame and I sincerely hope you pull through. Odsal (albeit a sh*t hole) has created some fond memories for me and I have seen some cracking games there. For it all to end so immediately would be a pity.

I mean, think about it ... The forward pass would need to find a new home, and everything

Genuinely, best wishes to the Bulls.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:16 am  

pulsator2k7 wrote:

Anyone know of a fella called "Ralph Scott" just seen on the Bradford Bulls facebook page this guy has pledged £5000

I imagine it could easily be someone having a wind up. Hope not.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:18 am  

£500,000k / 20,000 fans is .

£25 quid each. It's not a perfect solution so how about this. Next match against leeds, season tickets are not valid. Everyone pays entry. 20k fans all paying would help somewhat.

Then maybe the RFL need to step in and move an exiles fixture to Odsal too, or maybe both.


Like I say not perfect, but gives Bradford a chance.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:19 am  

Cibaman wrote:

If things are as bad as the Board suggest, it seems almost impossible that the club will be able to raise the necessary finance to keep club going. Administration seems to be the only realistic option. But how would it work? Not just in terms of insolvency law, but in the context of the RFL and SL's rules?

My initial guesses to those IMO excellent questions:

1) Would the club lose its license? A points deduction wouldnt have much impact without the threat of relegation.

London and Wakefield did not, so there must be precedents there?

2) Would the club be able or allowed to fulfill its fixtures this season? Would we face the prospect of playing out the season with juniors? At what point would it make more sense to withdraw from SL and start again next season?

I guess it would depend on how much of the team we could - or were allowed to - retain. A quick pre-pack might enable an incoming buyer to act before players started leaving (for whatever reason) - Wakey's resolution dragged on, and they lost a lot of players ove rthat period.

3) Have we already received the Sky money for the season? What other sources of income would the club have, bearing in mind how much of our income is from season ticket holders and has been already received?

Not sure how the Sky money works, but suspect its available early-on. Clubs get money from the RFL too? Any sponsorship and similar contracts would probably die with any insolvency so would have to be renegotiated. I guess any provider of commercial income who had paid up front (as well as those season ticket holders who took out the extended deals) would feel especially aggrieved?

4) Does SL have the equivalent of football's "football creditors" rule?

Not heard of one, tbh. Football gets away with it because of the clout it has.

5) Have we paid the final instalment of the Harris settlement? Could that have anything to do with the timing of this announcement

Hood assured us at the last forum (and in the media IIRC?) that it had been paid. And Hood is an honourable man...

6) How would the lease with the RFL be affected? Would moving to VP be an option?

Administration would almost certainly void the lease, and the RFL would be a - I think unsecured, if their charge has been released? - creditor. they could repossess the stadium, I assume; and we could move to VP, or Sedburgh playing fields or wherever.


In saying "we", I mean the new entity that would be formed to buy the assets off the administrator. Forget Bradford Northern Rugby League Club (1964) Ltd, more recently renamed Bradford Bulls Holdings Ltd. It would be Bradford Bulls (2012) Ltd or similar.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:21 am  

The club already been round schools last week giving vouchers for Leeds game - £5 for parent and child. So expect a big crowd but unfortunately not a large income.