: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:34 pm  

I put don't know because in many ways I agree with Adey.
No-one can be happy with the teams performances this season. The rhinos match has been the only 80 minute performance and that is not good enough.
I have no idea whether or not Macca is a good coach. Many people who know a lot more about RL than me seem to rate him but the results do not support him. He is certainly an unlucky coach and if results do not improve then he probably will go, if only to give the impression that something is been done.

Sadly I think the problems at the Bulls are much deeper than just the coach and therefore a change of coach may improve results in the short term but is likely to have little effect in the medium to long term.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:54 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I would be very interested to read a dissertation by the Bulls' conditioner entitled something like:

"Player Conditioning Over the Easter Schedule - A discussion of the apparent differing performance and energy levels of players and teams in Super League over a busy period"

Well if that's what paddles your canoe, who are we to criticise? I'd rather read a good book personally...

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:36 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

What would your view be if, for the sake of argument, decisions about how long a contract to offer players and how much to offer them were not taken by Macca but by someone else, and issues like that were causing problems?

Sorry but that isn't an excuse for the teams performance IMO.

Adeybull wrote:

Or if, contrary to what we have been led to believe, Macca is not being allowed to spend the full cap (maybe cos of disappointing gates...?)

But that doesn't excuse the fact that we are 13th in the league and out of the cup already. Do you think that's what the club hoped the level we would be at after 3 months of the season.

Adeybull wrote:

or Macca would love to offer players - current and prospective - the sort of "tax-efficient" (or even brown-envelope?) deals that allegedly some other clubs seemed able to offer but ours will not?

It doesn't matter any that he knew his budget he signed the players I'll make the point again is McNamara happy with the squad he's assembled.

Adeybull wrote:

Or some player is being paid loads more than others because someone other than the coach made the decision?

That will be a common thing in a lot of other sports amd teams it's the coaches job to deal with it.

Adeybull wrote:

You and so many others continue to address the symptoms, when none of us on here (unless we have substantial inside information) really know the true cause.

So lets things get worse and worse shall we and the support base get more and more alienated just because we have a coach who can't cope with a few possibly difficulties, difficulties a few coaches in our league would probably love to have.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:51 pm  

Wigan Bull wrote:

But what if funds are being cut on areas that aren't necessarily visible but would have an impact none the less
E.g.
Training facilities

Woodhouse Grove purpose built plus expected to move into the new Bradford college facility.

Wigan Bull wrote:

But what if funds are being cut on areas that aren't necessarily visible but would have an impact none the less
E.g.
Travel

They still use the Eddie Brown luxury coach.

Wigan Bull wrote:

Quality Assistant coaches

It's always been a debate about the current assistant and there worth.

Wigan Bull wrote:

Other staff - meaning increased weight on SM's shoulders

We've increased the staff this year with the appointmet of Stuart Barrow. He nows joins Lee St Hilaire, Basil Richards, Martin Clawson, Martin Higgins, Andy Senior, Paul Medley, Mark Robinson, Phil Tate, Jason Stein.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:54 pm  

So the issue now is no longer that the coach is crap, but instead that the coach is maybe not up to coping with and working round issues outside of his control?

Assuming that any of the hypothetical possibilities that I raised are actually real issues? And don't forget, I am not in any way trying to make excuses for what we are seeing - we are way past excuses anyway - just offering other lines of possible enquiry in the face of the lynch mob.

But as I keep saying, you and most others in the "time for a change" camp, and especially the militant "hang 'em high" wing thereof, are still addressing symptoms not causes. Do YOU know what the real causes of our unacceptable performance are? Or are you guessing or surmising or assuming? I sure don't have any idea what's causing it, I just know that I am pretty bogged off with it like everyone else.

Therefore who is to say that replacing the coach will actually solve anything? It may do; then again it may not. As AP rightly said earlier, one way to find out is to go ahead and do it; but if it transpires that that has NOT solved the problem, then you really ARE up shît creek.

Anyone remember the M1 British Midland plane crash a few years ago? IIRC, The warning lights told the pilot - allegedly - that one of the engines was crap so he shut it down. Even though some passengers out of the window could see flames coming out of the other engine. Result was that the action he took did not save the plane, it actually made the situation far worse. I suggest we have to be very careful to make sure we likewise do not shut down the wrong engine, through acting on incomplete or inaccurate information.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:05 pm  

Looking at the coaching staff list a couple of things spring to mind. Like the playing staff the average age isn't particularly high so we lack experience in running a top flight club. The other thing is how many of them have been with the club for a significant length of time and are able to bring a winning mentality we certainly had 4 years ago.

Stuart Barrow was added as part of the development coaching staff so again that looks to be a high priority that hopefully long term gives us a squad to compete.

If MacNamara isn't happy with the playing staff he's hardly likely to say so publicly. While they are his players there is always a risk that some players just don't work out like you expect but publicly criticising them or trying to offload (the Ellis debacle reinforced this) them isn't going to help.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:22 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

So the issue now is no longer that the coach is crap, but instead that the coach is maybe not up to coping with and working round issues outside of his control?

Every body in all walks of there working life have to deal with things that are out of their control. Like I've said before other super league coaches will all be having similar issue's it's not just a problem of ours.

Adeybull wrote:

Assuming that any of the hypothetical possibilities that I raised are actually real issues? And don't forget, I am not in any way trying to make excuses for what we are seeing - we are way past excuses anyway - just offering other lines of possible enquiry in the face of the lynch mob.

So if we are past the stage of them being an issue why keep bringing them up.

Adeybull wrote:

But as I keep saying, you and most others in the "time for a change" camp, and especially the militant "hang 'em high" wing thereof, are still addressing symptoms not causes. Do YOU know what the real causes of our unacceptable performance are? Or are you guessing or surmising or assuming? I sure don't have any idea what's causing it, I just know that I am pretty bogged off with it like everyone else.

Like I've said before most of the other coaches in super league will have a less than ideal working situation but they appear to be making a better use of the available resources.

Adeybull wrote:

Therefore who is to say that replacing the coach will actually solve anything? It may do; then again it may not. As AP rightly said earlier, one way to find out is to go ahead and do it; but if it transpires that that has NOT solved the problem, then you really ARE up shît creek.

That's a fair point but do we carry on as we are now just because a change might not work even though things aren't working in the present.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:29 pm  

redeverready wrote:

They still use the Eddie Brown luxury coach.

So we do have a decent coach after all? Bugger, I will have to change my vote now.

Incidentally, 16 people have voted option 1 yet no one thus far has said so on here or given us the reasons for choosing it?

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:38 pm  

redeverready wrote:

So if we are past the stage of them being an issue why keep bringing them up.

Because of the difference between "excuses" and "causes," or "reasons" if you prefer. I did not say we are past the stage of any of them being an issue (if indeed any of them are). I said we are past the time for excuses - from whoever. Two different things. I'm fed up with excuses; I want to understand the reasons.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 pm  

redeverready wrote:

Every body in all walks of there working life have to deal with things that are out of their control. Like I've said before other super league coaches will all be having similar issue's it's not just a problem of ours.

Yes, to a point of course you are right. But I wonder whether our coach is having to contend with a lot more issues than most? Again I speculate, but there is a fair bit of anecdotal indication that he just might. For instance, despite all the early-season poor performance at Warrington, its unlikely their coach has money concerns with Moran in the background. And even more so at the Piedome, where they seem to have invested heavily in support and commercial staff? For example?