Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:59 am  

If I were the England manager my first decision would be how I want the team to play against Australia. So far as 6 and 13 are concerned, you could just pick what you think are the outstanding individuals in those two spots; or you could pick each on the basis of how they fit into the way you want to play, and how you think they will combine with the other players that are your first choice.

Against Australia, if given a 2 player choice for no. 6, I personally at the moment would pick Sinfield over McGuire every time, if the alternative was he didn't play at all.

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:03 am  

I`d have neither. I prefer Widdop.

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:17 am  

ifallwerelikemumby wrote:

I`d have neither. I prefer Widdop.

Er, if given a 2 player choice between Sinfield and McGuire - you'd pick Widdop?

I think you may be missing a key point of the question ...

[Bulliac]

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:05 pm  

I always feel that halves should be picked as a pair, and that one should complement the other. One is the 'organiser' and one is the nippy linebreaker/backer up and to be honest it doesn't matter which is six and which is seven. With the right partner Sinfield is a superb half in SL, but he doesn't always seem to stand out in international rugby - even if he rarely lets the side down.

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:00 pm  

This is it with Sinfield, he never does "stand out" in that way, he just does what he does extremely well. But some people don't or won't or can't see the contribution of players in his mould. They think his team plays like that by coincidence.

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:20 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

I always feel that halves should be picked as a pair, and that one should complement the other. One is the 'organiser' and one is the nippy linebreaker/backer up and to be honest it doesn't matter which is six and which is seven. With the right partner Sinfield is a superb half in SL, but he doesn't always seem to stand out in international rugby - even if he rarely lets the side down.

I've always thought the idea of picking clubmate halves, as well as three quarters would be good, if viable.

Sinfield & McGuire for example, know each other's game. Rather than putting two together that never play alongside each other, they already have that knowledge and fluidity. Same with a centre/wing partnership, the experience of having played together week in, week out, makes for a better combination.

I'd much prefer a three quarter line of Charnley, Goulding, Atkins, Riley for example, to one of Charnley, Cudjoe, Atkins, Hall. (Yes I know a couple of those players may not be in anyway, but the point remains).

It's sometimes worth sacrificing a better player (like Ryan Hall), in order to get a better combination in there instead. It's a team game after all, not an individual one.

[Bullseye]

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:21 pm  

I'm not sure Sinfield has been up to his previous standards this year, I fear if he's an automatic selection he could be embarrassed.

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:00 pm  

Fo me, the England line up would be...

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Josh Charnley
3. Ryan Atkins
4. Kallum Watkins (would have been Jack Reed)
5. Ryan Hall
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Richie Myler
8. Sam Burgess
9. Danny Houghton
10. James Graham
11. Ben Westwood
12. Liam Farrell
13. Kevin Sinfield

14. James Roby
15. Stefan Ratchford
16. Gareth Ellis or Brett Ferres
17. George Burgess or Chris Hill

Squad - Tom Briscoe, Zak Hardacre, Carl Ablett, Garreth Carvell, Leroy Cudjoe, Danny McGuire

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:29 am  

My team would be Tomkins, Charnley, Cudjoe, Watkins, Hall, Widdop, Brough, Graham, Mcilorum, Crabtree, Ellis, Westwood, Burgess. Subs G Burgess, S Ratchford, Hock, Carvell

Re: This guy must have 1 almighty agent! : Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:22 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

There's a reasonable parallel between how people love or hate Mcnamara with the polarised views of Sinfield. To me, Sinfield has just been an immense player al his career. But he doesn't do anything flashy, and has no pace. So there is nothing he could do, ever, to stop his detractors detracting. They say he should be nowhere near the England team. IMHO that is just a mad view, he should be one of the first names down, but if you don't like him after all the silverware teams including him have won, then there is nothing else that will convince you. Like the case of Deacon, you'll convince yourself that all those trophies won by all those teams were won despite Sinfield.

One difference is that he actually did win something, in that he won the Golden Boot. Instead of 'well done, I would have voted for X or Y but anyway, deserved', that cued predicted howls of derision, proving the point.

I don't follow this parallel. Sinfield as a player won many team and individual accolades (see Lance Todd and presumably Harry Sunderland medals), as did Deacon as you point out. McNamara as a head coach has won nothing of particular merit - I cite the post of Bullseye earlier in the thread.

Even if some fans can't appreciate what Deacon and Sinfield may or may not have done as organisers/playmakers, both were pretty good goal-kickers and in that way played a vital role in the trophies their sides won. Can't say anything of the sort for McNamara as a coach because there are no notable achievements to speak of, although he'd deservedly get some kudos if England win the world cup.