[Pumpetypump]

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:53 am  

Essentially it boils down to whether you think adding stock cars makes Odsal a viable and sustainable ground for us. If you do then great, look forward to the sunlit uplands of Odsal. If you don't, then its actually a little difficult to feel positive about our future. I personally think Odsal cannot be transformed into an affordable and sustainable home so the stock cars feels almost irrelevant.

We have to move on but there's no evidence that there is anyone with even a vague plan on how to do that. I find it just as worrying that there's no evidence senior people at the club have come to the same conclusion about what a hopeless cause Odsal is. If they were to come out and say we know Odsal can't be our forever home anymore, but we need to move back in whilst we explore our options, I'd feel a little better.

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:25 pm  

For me the ground has become a bete noire but the real issue is who owns (and invests in) the club.

If you mismanage a situation to such an extent that you have to sell something you once owned and now have to pay rent for it. If you run a bed shop and decide to takeover a rugby club in administration which is x times bigger than the business you own.
If you sign 40 players and none are a scrum half. If you buy something and travel all the way from New Zealand and don't even have the funds to open a bank account....... I could go on.

Are these issues with the ground?

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:30 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:

For me the ground has become a bete noire but the real issue is who owns (and invests in) the club.

If you mismanage a situation to such an extent that you have to sell something you once owned and now have to pay rent for it. If you run a bed shop and decide to takeover a rugby club in administration which is x times bigger than the business you own.
If you sign 40 players and none are a scrum half. If you buy something and travel all the way from New Zealand and don't even have the funds to open a bank account....... I could go on.

Are these issues with the ground?

Not with Odsal directly, but they are issues with the opaque nature of the RFLs approval of bids which in turn COULD be about Odsal. They turn down investors with money in favour of the litany of paupers you mention. You don't have to be a conspiracy theory nut to think they've done that for a specific reason. Its just we don't know what weird long-game the RFL have been playing. Is it that they ultimately want to realise some sort of investment potential of Odsal so required owners that are in the RFL pocket or that they could control, rather than appoint someone rich? Chalmers himself was an RFL stooge who just happened to go completely renegade.

[Bullseye]

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:32 am  

Pumpetypump wrote:

Not with Odsal directly, but they are issues with the opaque nature of the RFLs approval of bids which in turn COULD be about Odsal. They turn down investors with money in favour of the litany of paupers you mention. You don't have to be a conspiracy theory nut to think they've done that for a specific reason. Its just we don't know what weird long-game the RFL have been playing. Is it that they ultimately want to realise some sort of investment potential of Odsal so required owners that are in the RFL pocket or that they could control, rather than appoint someone rich? Chalmers himself was an RFL stooge who just happened to go completely renegade.

This is exactly my issue. The transfer of the Odsal lease to the RFL has seen the ground deteriorate so that it's worse than at any point since the part-refurb in 85-86.

I'm struggling to see why the RFL took the lease. I would suggest it's incompetence on the part of the RFL to try and cover up/plug a financial hole for the loans they had advanced the club prior to 2012. All they've got is a financial millstone. If it had investment potential it would've been realised yonks ago. The RFL turning down investors to give the club to Chalmers suggests they wanted "their man" running things for some as yet unknown reason.

Well Nigel is in charge now - everyone knows this even if it's not officially confirmed. What are his plans for Odsal? Has he got any? I worry that he hasn't and all we have is a ruin of a ground that is getting worse. While Wood remains in the background we supporters are expected to just back the team and not ask any awkward questions - even if we did we wouldn't get any answers. The RL media won't rock the boat - too many vested interests.

I fear it will all end in tears - probably once the TV money runs out next year.

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:19 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

This is exactly my issue. The transfer of the Odsal lease to the RFL has seen the ground deteriorate so that it's worse than at any point since the part-refurb in 85-86.

I'm struggling to see why the RFL took the lease. I would suggest it's incompetence on the part of the RFL to try and cover up/plug a financial hole for the loans they had advanced the club prior to 2012. All they've got is a financial millstone. If it had investment potential it would've been realised yonks ago. The RFL turning down investors to give the club to Chalmers suggests they wanted "their man" running things for some as yet unknown reason.

Well Nigel is in charge now - everyone knows this even if it's not officially confirmed. What are his plans for Odsal? Has he got any? I worry that he hasn't and all we have is a ruin of a ground that is getting worse. While Wood remains in the background we supporters are expected to just back the team and not ask any awkward questions - even if we did we wouldn't get any answers. The RL media won't rock the boat - too many vested interests.

I fear it will all end in tears - probably once the TV money runs out next year.

Accepting everything you and Pumps say as based in fact and that there has indeed been some form of conspiracy that has not been in the club's, or its supporters' (and In OK's case owner's) interests, why is Wood involved if he doesn't have any plan/investment for the club's advancement? Unless the Chinese guy's turned up.

[Bullseye]

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:58 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

Accepting everything you and Pumps say as based in fact and that there has indeed been some form of conspiracy that has not been in the club's, or its supporters' (and In OK's case owner's) interests, why is Wood involved if he doesn't have any plan/investment for the club's advancement? Unless the Chinese guy's turned up.

Why indeed? I'd love to know. I'd be all ears! Unfortunately he won't even confirm he's in charge when it's obvious he is.

Has there been any sign of advancement at all anywhere?

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:19 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Why indeed? I'd love to know. I'd be all ears! Unfortunately he won't even confirm he's in charge when it's obvious he is.

Has there been any sign of advancement at all anywhere?

On field side seems to be well managed TBF. Off field social media side seems a lot more professional now and first time in years we have had shirts and merchandise available before xmas in years and haven't seen any complaints about quality. I suppose you could say club have had plenty of time last year to sort out the merchandise and its in their interests to get it right as its first source of income they could tap into with late release of season tickets. And I'd expect season ticket sales to be significantly down this year with uncertainty around fans being allowed back in. Superleague bid documents that were released seem quite well thought out too.

Areas where there needs to be better communication are long term plans, ownership and investment. Also some clarity around Odsal. Other than in season ticket marketing material I don't think its been officially announced that we are moving back and whether its a short term measure or longer term. Also what terms are we coming back on? Is rent split between us and Stock cars, is their a stadium management company now. I noticed on one of stock car releases their actively marketing upper level of Southbank for corporate events mid week ( something we should have done more with TBF). does that mean their senior stadium lease holder and were just taking it for matchdays?.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:24 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Why indeed? I'd love to know. I'd be all ears! Unfortunately he won't even confirm he's in charge when it's obvious he is.

He is very cagey about being the visible face of the club, but every interview with Mark Sawyer now has him specifically saying that he's urged Nigel Wood to come forward and take a bigger role. Sawyer wasn't really on my radar before our latest melt-down but I have a huge amount of respect for how he's had to juggle his primary role at Dewsbury with being caretaker of our club. Understandably he wants someone else to step up so he can get back to his first love.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:31 am  

mat wrote:

On field side seems to be well managed TBF. Off field social media side seems a lot more professional now and first time in years we have had shirts and merchandise available before xmas in years and haven't seen any complaints about quality. I suppose you could say club have had plenty of time last year to sort out the merchandise and its in their interests to get it right as its first source of income they could tap into with late release of season tickets. And I'd expect season ticket sales to be significantly down this year with uncertainty around fans being allowed back in. Superleague bid documents that were released seem quite well thought out too..

So perhaps there's a steady pair of hands behind the scenes which fits with what Sawyer says about capable Nigel Wood being involved. But did Nigel ever strike you as the shy retiring type? I'm not sure why he isn't becoming the face of the club, unless the minority stake his family have bought is literally the extent of his interest?

Re: Redevelop starts 4th Jan? : Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:38 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

...capable Nigel Wood....

His handling of Thrum Hall put a stand sized hole in the side of the good ship Halifax which they have never recovered from...the more he hides the more worried I get.