Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:59 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

Which act does playing 6/7 seasons in Dewsbury fall into? When you say I'd prefer to stay where we are there's a suggestion that the club have reached a plateau form where they will further stabilise etc. Isn't a more likely situation is that team's that play in Dewsbury become Dewsbury (no disrespect to our gracious landlords)? Gallagher, Scurr, Doyle will one by one go to lower level SL clubs with a the odd Bentley and even a Bateman thrown in? There will be increasing pressure to jettison the academy and less genuine pressure to get the club back to Bradford. No TV money will exacerbate this.

I don't see an alternative to getting back to Odsal if at all possible and that demands we aim for SL.

I think that's the issue? I don't seen any alternative that's successful. There is no suggestion from me that Dewsbury becomes a permanent fixture. However, there is something that seems a little knee jerk in the desperation to get back to Odsal.

We seem to have stabilised but are we in a rock solid position? If so why jeopardise it? Why not stay put for a year or two in a very uncertain world and build on the platform when/if circumstances ease.

If we aren't then why join SL to get our backsides handed to us week in week out in a stadium we can't afford and undo all the work and pain we've gone through so far by getting immediately relegated and handing the lower SL chairmen the get out of jail free cards it seem that this grab for an extra club seems to be?

Sure, the bright lights of SL get further away the more the years at Dewsbury slide by but unless there's been a nod and a wink to the CH sides applying regarding the SL drawbridge being pulled up once they are in then it appears suicidal to go back to a stadium we couldn't afford to run 2 years ago. Even if it is pulled up we all must be fully aware that Odsal killed us and that death started in SL.

Those with the money to run the club wanted the lease, the RFL always said no. Even if they sell to Wood the hasty wedding to stock cars seems to indicate there is no desire in the slightest to improve the dump and lets be honest, as much as were emotionally attached to the place, its long passed it's sell by date and a couple of coats of Dulux will do nothing to change that. If the RFL retain the lease they don't have a pot to relieve themselves in.

Whichever way I look at it, unless the finances receive a decent and continued boost from someone with more money than sense then the future is looking very dark to me? Whether bottom of the SL or scratching in the CH we won't keep hold of the kids and Hudds, KR etc will still pick them off?

Even staying at Dewsbury looks grim but surely we'll survive there longer with no central funding that at Odsal, whether we have a years in SL or not?

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:09 pm  

Scarey71 wrote:

I think that's the issue? I don't seen any alternative that's successful. There is no suggestion from me that Dewsbury becomes a permanent fixture. However, there is something that seems a little knee jerk in the desperation to get back to Odsal.

We seem to have stabilised but are we in a rock solid position? If so why jeopardise it? Why not stay put for a year or two in a very uncertain world and build on the platform when/if circumstances ease.

If we aren't then why join SL to get our backsides handed to us week in week out in a stadium we can't afford and undo all the work and pain we've gone through so far by getting immediately relegated and handing the lower SL chairmen the get out of jail free cards it seem that this grab for an extra club seems to be?

Sure, the bright lights of SL get further away the more the years at Dewsbury slide by but unless there's been a nod and a wink to the CH sides applying regarding the SL drawbridge being pulled up once they are in then it appears suicidal to go back to a stadium we couldn't afford to run 2 years ago. Even if it is pulled up we all must be fully aware that Odsal killed us and that death started in SL.

Those with the money to run the club wanted the lease, the RFL always said no. Even if they sell to Wood the hasty wedding to stock cars seems to indicate there is no desire in the slightest to improve the dump and lets be honest, as much as were emotionally attached to the place, its long passed it's sell by date and a couple of coats of Dulux will do nothing to change that. If the RFL retain the lease they don't have a pot to relieve themselves in.

Whichever way I look at it, unless the finances receive a decent and continued boost from someone with more money than sense then the future is looking very dark to me? Whether bottom of the SL or scratching in the CH we won't keep hold of the kids and Hudds, KR etc will still pick them off?

Even staying at Dewsbury looks grim but surely we'll survive there longer with no central funding that at Odsal, whether we have a years in SL or not?

I don't know either. It's heart attack vs stroke. I watch SL and at the bottom end it's rubbish so I'm marginally more optimistic than most on here but accept we're heavy favourites for the drop.

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:23 pm  

Whilst I haven’t seen any club accounts, I did get the administrators reports. Here’s my tuppence worth.
Our last few seasons on SL, we were paying out full cap, our back room & admin (non performance) was bloated, we were in Odsal, TV money was approx £1.2m and we were losing about £700k per year.(although OK got shafted here) The year after we got relegated, TV money went to £1.8m. With just some cloth cutting, we would have broken even. Anyway, down we went.
Cloth cutting - both performance and non-performance sides happened, but not in pace with our central funding drop so more financial problems.
Now, compared to the club that got relegated, we are lean. Cloth cutting has occurred, efficiencies have been developed.
Purely basing it on Diskin’s prematch interview last year where he said our player spend was 3x Batleys, I think our spend is about £550k - £600k. And we seem to be comfortable with that with our new owners. And that is on 6th place central funding of £300k was it?
What I’m getting at is the majority of the 12th place extra funding can be given straight to JK for performance. We wouldn’t be far off. Crucially, to keep the likes of Doyle & Scurr, we need to be in SL. Otherwise this next academy group will go at the end of next year

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:20 am  

Scarey71 wrote:

I think that's the issue? I don't seen any alternative that's successful. There is no suggestion from me that Dewsbury becomes a permanent fixture. However, there is something that seems a little knee jerk in the desperation to get back to Odsal.

We seem to have stabilised but are we in a rock solid position? If so why jeopardise it? Why not stay put for a year or two in a very uncertain world and build on the platform when/if circumstances ease.

If we aren't then why join SL to get our backsides handed to us week in week out in a stadium we can't afford and undo all the work and pain we've gone through so far by getting immediately relegated and handing the lower SL chairmen the get out of jail free cards it seem that this grab for an extra club seems to be?

Sure, the bright lights of SL get further away the more the years at Dewsbury slide by but unless there's been a nod and a wink to the CH sides applying regarding the SL drawbridge being pulled up once they are in then it appears suicidal to go back to a stadium we couldn't afford to run 2 years ago. Even if it is pulled up we all must be fully aware that Odsal killed us and that death started in SL.

Those with the money to run the club wanted the lease, the RFL always said no. Even if they sell to Wood the hasty wedding to stock cars seems to indicate there is no desire in the slightest to improve the dump and lets be honest, as much as were emotionally attached to the place, its long passed it's sell by date and a couple of coats of Dulux will do nothing to change that. If the RFL retain the lease they don't have a pot to relieve themselves in.

Whichever way I look at it, unless the finances receive a decent and continued boost from someone with more money than sense then the future is looking very dark to me? Whether bottom of the SL or scratching in the CH we won't keep hold of the kids and Hudds, KR etc will still pick them off?

Even staying at Dewsbury looks grim but surely we'll survive there longer with no central funding that at Odsal, whether we have a years in SL or not?

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:23 am  

Your right There the country is on its booty the game we all love is on its booty without a big money backer we are doomed to failure

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:20 pm  

Highlander wrote:

Whilst I haven’t seen any club accounts, I did get the administrators reports. Here’s my tuppence worth.
Our last few seasons on SL, we were paying out full cap, our back room & admin (non performance) was bloated, we were in Odsal, TV money was approx £1.2m and we were losing about £700k per year.(although OK got shafted here) The year after we got relegated, TV money went to £1.8m. With just some cloth cutting, we would have broken even. Anyway, down we went.
Cloth cutting - both performance and non-performance sides happened, but not in pace with our central funding drop so more financial problems.
Now, compared to the club that got relegated, we are lean. Cloth cutting has occurred, efficiencies have been developed.
Purely basing it on Diskin’s prematch interview last year where he said our player spend was 3x Batleys, I think our spend is about £550k - £600k. And we seem to be comfortable with that with our new owners. And that is on 6th place central funding of £300k was it?
What I’m getting at is the majority of the 12th place extra funding can be given straight to JK for performance. We wouldn’t be far off. Crucially, to keep the likes of Doyle & Scurr, we need to be in SL. Otherwise this next academy group will go at the end of next year

I've swayed back and forth on this since it was announce that there would be a bidding process but have settled on the idea of going up as worth a punt.

As Highlander and Scarey have alluded to, we have stripped the club back to its bare essentials and is in a position where it is spending within its means on £300k central funding. Give it another £700k in the first year back at SL level with some modest stadium upgrades paid through the RFL/Government Loan and we have a shot at beating relegation (if it even happens at all that is). After that you get a full years central funding and take it from there.

My gut feeling is that there is a strong possibility SL becomes a closed shop from 2021, and something that Chalmers said in one of his first fans forums rings some bells. He made a big case saying licensing from 2021 would happen and the way it is now can anyone really say its not a consideration?

This is in my opinion our one and only shot at getting back to the top league. With the rubbish TV deal coming and smaller central funding, we will essentially go year to year living on selling our best talent to bigger teams. We will never (no matter what anyone says) get close to seeing the full potential of these players to enable us a crack of promotion.

The other consideration is why would the owners choose to make such a bid if they didn't think they could make a go of it? For what reason would Wood and Sawyer have for putting the club in a position that it would fail financially again? There is no benefit to having a failed business on your directors record. They must know something we don't.

My guess is that Odsal unlocks the answer. The lease held by the RFL is still desirable given that it appears as appetizing as a poop sandwich... ask yourself why. Could it still be possible that there is some value in the land awaiting to be unlocked and that between the two unoccupied sites (Dunnes and Odsal) is an opportunity for the council and leasehold to make some serious money and provide a cost efficient ground for the club and community use?

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:29 pm  

Wood and Sawyer applied because they had to. Only a handful of clubs actually met the criteria to be eligible. Can you imagine they outcry from (some) Bulls fans if they just didn't bother applying?
I don't for one second think we will be the team to go up.

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:44 pm  

Nothus wrote:

Wood and Sawyer applied because they had to. Only a handful of clubs actually met the criteria to be eligible. Can you imagine they outcry from (some) Bulls fans if they just didn't bother applying?
I don't for one second think we will be the team to go up.

I on the other had think the criteria was set just to make sure the Bulls made it. Otherwise why say you had to finish Top 6 in the past two seasons? Surely you’d go by playoff places which is 1-5. Why include the 6th team? Do you think they would have said Top 6 if Bradford had made the playoffs?

Its good to see everyones differing opinions on this and to see peoples way if thinking. Creates good debate

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:04 am  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

I on the other had think the criteria was set just to make sure the Bulls made it. Otherwise why say you had to finish Top 6 in the past two seasons? Surely you’d go by playoff places which is 1-5. Why include the 6th team? Do you think they would have said Top 6 if Bradford had made the playoffs?

Its good to see everyones differing opinions on this and to see peoples way if thinking. Creates good debate

I'm with you JJ, there seems to be a lot of the way the criteria has been put together that leads to including us to have a chance at least of meeting the majrity of it. Are the SL club owners seeing a Bradford away support spending money in their ground?

I think the main thing in the whole situation is that the person making the reccomendation is completely impartial and will make a decision based on the pure facts in front of him as opposed to any liking or dislike towards any of the applicants. This really means for me everyone has a much of a chance as each other.

I do thnk we are in with a real chance personally looking at the majority of the criteria, quick look at it, Fev and York no academy. Leigh a barmpot owner who has a tendancy to spit his dummy at any given moment. Toulouse, well Catalans have been in a long time with very little development of French players and have a Challenge cup to show for it. Plus costs rise to the clubs having to go to france twice a year.

London are the big players for me as they have done unbelieveably in my opinion with regards the academy and getting oung local lads in the team. The only problem is the crowds which are of no benefit to current clubs apart from maybe the sway of a team in the Capital helping with discussions regardng the TV deal.

Then there is us, academy renowned for still producing super league players despite being in the championship. Big away support inthe eyes of other chairmen, I mean that first game away at Leigh when I sat with you on the bus was mad.

Going to be very interesting

Re: Toronto and our chances of SL invite : Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:24 am  

thepimp007 wrote:

I'm with you JJ, there seems to be a lot of the way the criteria has been put together that leads to including us to have a chance at least of meeting the majrity of it. Are the SL club owners seeing a Bradford away support spending money in their ground?

I think the main thing in the whole situation is that the person making the reccomendation is completely impartial and will make a decision based on the pure facts in front of him as opposed to any liking or dislike towards any of the applicants. This really means for me everyone has a much of a chance as each other.

I do thnk we are in with a real chance personally looking at the majority of the criteria, quick look at it, Fev and York no academy. Leigh a barmpot owner who has a tendancy to spit his dummy at any given moment. Toulouse, well Catalans have been in a long time with very little development of French players and have a Challenge cup to show for it. Plus costs rise to the clubs having to go to france twice a year.

London are the big players for me as they have done unbelieveably in my opinion with regards the academy and getting oung local lads in the team. The only problem is the crowds which are of no benefit to current clubs apart from maybe the sway of a team in the Capital helping with discussions regardng the TV deal.

Then there is us, academy renowned for still producing super league players despite being in the championship. Big away support inthe eyes of other chairmen, I mean that first game away at Leigh when I sat with you on the bus was mad.

Going to be very interesting

The criteria certainly ensures we have a real good chance. Especially the financial aspect of the bid. You have to have a turnover of at least £300,000 in either 2018 or 2019. In 2019 we had financial trouble, hence the selling of Minchella, Keyes, Milnes and Mutodi plus why James Green left. However as we didn’t go into administration, did the sale of those players take us over the £300,000 mark? Can’t see us having that turnover in 2018 when we were in League 1.

The away support will be a big pull. More money for other clubs, bigger crowds on TV make the game look better. it’s a story to sell. “Ex World Champions Rise from the ashes”. Can guarantee before our first televised game there will be a big X Factor esc sob story about our fall and rise.

Ah I’ve only read about the judges today. I was under the impressions that it was SL to decide. Even so, SL have made sure we meet pretty much every single criteria and the one we dont is ground ownership which won’t make a difference I don’t think.

I agree with your assessment on the other clubs. York have an outside chance. New ground, business run well, investment is there, it’s a new area to expand, no competition with football since York City’s fall from grace, good day out, good prospects for the future in terms of results on the field and a young british coach. For me Leigh and Bradford have the strongest bids, regardless of barmpot owner, he invests in the team, it’s already got many SL standard players, great ground, performances deserve it, crowd is good numbers, not bad away following. For me Leigh should be the team to go up.

Agree on London though. Done unreal since Ward and Langley took over! Especially in terms of development.

Yeah mate that Leigh game was mental! Was a bloody great day and great atmosphere. Never forget that! You going next season pal?