Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:57 pm  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

It's technically a donation from Batley to the players. Batley would pay tax on the gate reciepts as per usual. The money left over would be split in half (thanks to Batley's generosity). So really the HMRC shouldn't be able to touch it.

Why is it technically a donation? Batley are putting on a game of rugby, their normal course of business and will generate income from that game. To do that they require various people to provide various services. The Bradford Select players will be just one group that does that and have been promised that they will be remunerated for doing so.

What's to stop Batley from deciding that that eg turnstile operators, bar staff etc are not being paid and are just receiving a donation?

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:07 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

Why is it technically a donation? Batley are putting on a game of rugby, their normal course of business and will generate income from that game. To do that they require various people to provide various services. The Bradford Select players will be just one group that does that and have been promised that they will be remunerated for doing so.

What's to stop Batley from deciding that that eg turnstile operators, bar staff etc are not being paid and are just receiving a donation?

Yes Batley are putting on a game of rugby. Yes their normal business will generate income. The turnstile operators, bar staff etc are legally employees of Batley......the Bradford players are not. It will be classed as a donation because they are not employees of Batley and Batley are graciously giving some of their profits to us.

Also depends on the method of paying the players and the staff? Will it be cash on hand? Doubtful? Will it be paid directly into the players and staff accounts like a bank transfer? Unlikely? Will they use BullBuilder/Bulls Foundation charities as a third party in order to give the Bulls the money in a lump sum to dish out? Or will they donate it through the JustGiving page that's set up?

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:07 pm  

anyone know when the eternal due diligence ends and an announcement is due?

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:15 pm  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

Yes Batley are putting on a game of rugby. Yes their normal business will generate income. The turnstile operators, bar staff etc are legally employees of Batley......the Bradford players are not. It will be classed as a donation because they are not employees of Batley and Batley are graciously giving some of their profits to us.

Also depends on the method of paying the players and the staff? Will it be cash on hand? Doubtful? Will it be paid directly into the players and staff accounts like a bank transfer? Unlikely? Will they use BullBuilder/Bulls Foundation charities as a third party in order to give the Bulls the money in a lump sum to dish out? Or will they donate it through the JustGiving page that's set up?

The gate receipts would incur VAT which would go to HMRC. If batley pay the players directly the payment would be taxable as income tax. If it were to be paid to the players at zero tax via a registered charity that sounds like it would potentially be tax fraud. The payment would be taxable, the amount taxed would depend on the circumstances of the individual player.

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:19 pm  

AndyMc88 wrote:

The gate receipts would incur VAT which would go to HMRC. If batley pay the players directly the payment would be taxable as income tax. If it were to be paid to the players at zero tax via a registered charity that sounds like it would potentially be tax fraud. The payment would be taxable, the amount taxed would depend on the circumstances of the individual player.

They could always donate it to Bullbuilder who are helping out the staff anyway.

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:24 pm  

HamsterChops wrote:

They could always donate it to Bullbuilder who are helping out the staff anyway.

Do you know how they're helping out?

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:30 pm  

bowlingboy wrote:

anyone know when the eternal due diligence ends and an announcement is due?

It would appear not...although it would get us back on the thread treadmill.

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:32 pm  

AndyMc88 wrote:

Do you know how they're helping out?

I don't, but I'm sure they would be happy to liaise with Batley if it was the best way of processing the money to ensure it got sorted.

Re: Free Agents/Who would your 1st team be? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:36 pm  

Duckman wrote:

I like the optimism!
However, just looking at avoiding relegation the sums are quite straightforward. Going off last season, after the playoffs Whitehaven went down on 17 points, Oldham survived on 20. So the absolute minimum we'll probably need is 18, starting on -12, 30 points required from 30 games. 15 wins, I think that's a better way to look at it rather than the depressing minus points stuff.

Assuming we get better as the season goes on, we might be able to win 5 of the 7 playoff games (?), which would mean we have to win 10 of the regular season games as a minimum to give ourselves a decent shot at avoiding relegation - I can see the current squad being able to have a good go at that with a few shrewd loan acquisitions in the forwards.

But, no two ways about it, its going to be tough, really difficult, and I'd say avoiding relegation in 2017 would be just as big an achievement as getting promotion from our current position.

This of course is all on the assumption that we;
a) Get an owner sorted this week (without a decent buyer this whole thread is moot)
b) Have some cash
c) Start the season
d) Re-sign the vast majority of the current ex squad available (which has to include Moss, Pryce, Chisholm and Kavanagh)
e) The RFL don't move the goalposts

Have to agree staying up would be on a par with any of our past achievements

Re: Phoenix from the flames? : Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:37 pm  

AndyMc88 wrote:

The gate receipts would incur VAT which would go to HMRC. If batley pay the players directly the payment would be taxable as income tax. If it were to be paid to the players at zero tax via a registered charity that sounds like it would potentially be tax fraud. The payment would be taxable, the amount taxed would depend on the circumstances of the individual player.

Yes the gate receipts would incur the normal VAT payable to HMRC. Why would it be income tax? Batley are not paying them as employees? Therefore it is not an income. If I transferred you some money via a bank transfer, it isn't taxable. It wouldn't be tax fraud as that charity is essentially helping out of work people. It's no different to you donating to charity such as NSPCC and the children benefiting from that. Only difference is, instead of children it's going to staff and players.