Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:13 pm  

Adam Brook.

Less said about that sorry episode the better.

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:13 pm  

Highlander wrote:

Apologies if it's already been posted, but we had 3 academy guys from last year on show in the first team and they all played well, not out of place at all. In a season of ups & downs, the academy is doing its job very well, and showing kids at our club there is a pathway to the first team.

Going forwards, I would hope this would be another prod to whoever is recruiting that we can get away with a less bloated first team squad and rely on our juniors more, like Wigan & Saints have historically done.

good point well made. The more of the first team we can bring through ourselves the better for lots of reasons. I particularly like the look of young Ross Oakes, some potential there.

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:14 pm  

roofaldo2 wrote:

Reading Diskin's post match comments he certainly comes across better than Lowes. Both in terms of clear answers and of understanding of the game. Again, it seems that Lowes is shown to be lacking in key areas to be a head coach but ignores the input of his coaching staff that could mitigate or even eliminate those short comings.

If I was Marc Green I'd be tempted to put Lowes on gardening leave for a month and see if there's any noticeable improvement in performances

Refreshing isn't it?

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:58 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Think Leon and Deacs were the last halfbacks we brought through to 1st team rugby.

Chris Bridge?

May play centre these days, but was very much a stand off for the academy. Just as he started getting a few first team games, Warrington threw money at him.

At a lower level, Dom Brambani and Richie Hawkyard both came through our academy and are now playing part time for Champ/Champ 1 teams. I think Hawkyard only played the 1 game for us though and Brambani never featured in the first team.

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:29 pm  

Southernwood at Batley as well. I think he played one first team game for us back when Steve Mac was in charge.

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:35 pm  

Yeah but it's the same for most sides, they don't bring half backs through that often. Once every ten years it seems. Beyond Sutcliffe and the other lad that have come through recently who have they brought through that's realistically going to move Shinfield, Burrow and Maguire on?

Is there any club that have a 7 playing for them that has been brought through their own system, stayed there and then thinking back has that same club produced anybody of note that has longevity in that position with the previous ten seasons?

I think it's shared belief that if you produce one academy player for the first team per season then you've done a good job. So by that reckoning if we assume a minimum squad size of 25 which is probably considered on the small side you're going to see a Scrum half once in every 25 seasons? 12 if you've divide by 2. Seems as if they're gold dust really, doesn't it?

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:43 pm  

Bulls4Champs wrote:

Yeah but it's the same for most sides, they don't bring half backs through that often. Once every ten years it seems. Beyond Sutcliffe and the other lad that have come through recently who have they brought through that's realistically going to move Shinfield, Burrow and Maguire on?

Is there any club that have a 7 playing for them that has been brought through their own system, stayed there and then thinking back has that same club produced anybody of note that has longevity in that position with the previous ten seasons?

In terms of longevity I suspect Wigan have the best record over the last thirty years or so, and that will be with 6s rather than 7s.

I wonder how much of the left channel, right channel, 6's and 7s are basically the same attitude that permeates the entire game now (in Aus as well as here) is down to exactly this.

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:04 pm  

Nothus wrote:

Southernwood at Batley as well. I think he played one first team game for us back when Steve Mac was in charge.

Cain didn't really come through our academy. We got him in a swap deal from Wakefield in exchange for Kieran Hyde.
When we got him, he was a year or two away from being ready, but supposedly Mick Potter never thought his defence was up to playing at first team level, hence why he only played a couple of games (one of which was in the cup). Same reason Kyle Briggs never got much of a chance, Potter didn't rate his defensive capabilities.

[Bullseye]

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:41 pm  

It was John Monie who said that you can’t really expect more than a couple of players per season to graduate to become 1st teamers. That was at Wigan back in the 1990s so a long time back but they had their pick of juniors throughout the game due to the lack of a salary cap. A fair few came from this side of the Pennines. Jason Robinson, Simon Haughton off the top of my head.

Now there’s more competition for the best young players it’s really down to the systems at each club to make the most out of what they have.

B4Cs point about how many clubs bringing through their own halfbacks is bang on. Hardly anyone does it. It’s a key position and teams are less likely to allow a player to grow into the role. How many British scrum halves of the past 30 years came through and were doing the business in their teens or early 20s? Not many. Andy Gregory, Bobbie Goulding and Shaun Edwards and that’s about it and they were ages back. Sean Long was 24 before he was a regular at Saints. Deacon was 23 before he came through with us properly.

Re: Where do we go from here? Two weeks off! : Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:48 pm  

Interesting observation that Long and Deacon didn't break the first team until they were 23/24. Just shows you that the ability to read the game/what's in front of you and then make an almost instantaneous yet composed decision at high speed in an elite game of RL can take a long time to bring out of someone.