Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:19 pm  

[quote="Ferocious Aardvark
Given you say Safeguard isn't a securities company, where's the connection? Why would a security company suddenly make a loan to individual/s to enable the purchase of shares in a struggling sports club? Have we any clues? Is it another private company, where it seems the owners can basically do whatever they like?

And I don't remember the name of Safeguard being on the back of any jackets that I can recall at Odsal - would they be listed as a creditor in the accounts?[/quote]

I don't know if Safeguard are a regular supplier to the Bulls or if it is was a deal between business acquaintances as one poster earlier on the thread suggested " Never mind RW. Safeguard Security owner Marc Green is an interesting character in his own right. I can certainly see how Whitless and Green could come to 'an arrangement'"

Anyway as Bullseye so rightly pointed out its time to be thinking of a few ( well actually quiet a lot more than a few) festive pints. Happy New year to everyone and here's hoping for a full season of exciting rugby at Odsal in 2014

Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:37 pm  

[Bullseye]

Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:44 pm  

I'll drink to that.

Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:54 pm  

miketaurus wrote:

For those wondering-: HMRC... There is no statutory definition of debenture. Therefore, it has its ordinary meaning which is "acknowledgement of debt".Nearly all debentures issued in exchange for shares and debentures will be securities within the meaning of TCGA92/S132 (3)(b). See CG53420+ and CG55015 for instructions on the definition of security. If the debenture is not a security the treatment depends upon whether it was issued before or after 16 March 1993.

The interpretation of the meaning Debenture given above is correct for that single word as applied by HMRC to Capital Gains taxation.
However I rather think that in legal terms a Deed of Debenture if fairly sound when it includes those fiddly bits that lawyers like add to it: Loan Agreement, Covenant to pay, hereby assigns and charges, fixed and floating charge, and then adds another 17 pages to it with the SSG Debenture Terms

Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:16 pm  

A few on here have wondered why a Security Company would lend money to a professional sports club. I was told today, by someone who really would know, that Marc Green (owner of Safeguard) is also MD and owner of Leasing UK Ltd. This is a company which operates in the field of equipment leasing across the spectrum of commercial and industrial kit. It's a spin off from the security industry where most big systems, esp CCTV are leased not purchased. Of course the supplier also facilitates loans to cover initial deposits. My informant tells me that Leasing UK has also ventured down the road of straight business to business loans.

[Bulliac]

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:51 pm  

redeverready wrote:

Ohh do tell ?.

Oh, please don't encourage them Red - I'm depressed enough without any more of that rubbish.

Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:19 pm  

bobsmyuncle wrote:

The interpretation of the meaning Debenture given above is correct for that single word as applied by HMRC to Capital Gains taxation.
However I rather think that in legal terms a Deed of Debenture if fairly sound when it includes those fiddly bits that lawyers like add to it: Loan Agreement, Covenant to pay, hereby assigns and charges, fixed and floating charge, and then adds another 17 pages to it with the SSG Debenture Terms

There is the issue. How is the loan made up? is it something like unpaid invoices for services or bits joined together? converted to a loan. Not all companies want it to be paid short term as it attracts interest. More like a mutual fund rather than hedging. There is also the corporate issue of avoiding taxation or enjoying benefits.

if I have missed something in the thread please pull me up on it.

[Bullseye]

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:26 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

Oh, please don't encourage them Red - I'm depressed enough without any more of that rubbish.

Amen to that.

Cattiness and Bitchiness won't be tolerated on here. Get a grip fellas.

Re: Moore, Calvert & Watt in out in out shake it all about : Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:34 pm  

£180,000 sounds like a lot of money for a set of false teeth.

Re: Moore, Calvert and Watt step down : Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:37 pm  

Northernrelic wrote:

I think Magic's summary fits with the chronology and the facts which have come into the public domain and is certainly plausible. The biggest problem of the OK era seems to have been that the people inside who should have know the facts didn't.

So now it seems that hopefully after a week of heading towards the rocks with no-one at the wheel the Directors have resumed their duties, but the rocks are still there and need avoiding.

Thanks, I appreciate that no one other than those involved have the answers for sure, but even a rough guide is useful given what's gone on! Hope it gets sorted out!

I would imagine Moore and co coming back is good news?