Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 2:36 pm  

Surely if the new club were having to buy assets and IP (via the RFL), then that is another indicator that there was no TUPE involved anyway. Clearly things weren't transferred between the two companies, they were bought from the administrator. If they were buying the logo and name, they certainly weren't transferring staff to a new parent company.

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 2:39 pm  

HamsterChops wrote:

Surely if the new club were having to buy assets and IP (via the RFL), then that is another indicator that there was no TUPE involved anyway. Clearly things weren't transferred between the two companies, they were bought from the administrator. If they were buying the logo and name, they certainly weren't transferring staff to a new parent company.

Agreed! Any claim aimed at the club could only be based on a 'collusion' ticket between new co and the RFL which resulted in employees and/or creditors being shafted, alleged!

[Bullseye]

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 2:44 pm  

Pretty difficult to prove without a smoking gun.

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 2:53 pm  

I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains. "The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred." Link https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/ ... businesses

I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains. "The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred." Link https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/ ... businesses

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 3:06 pm  

Nelson wrote: I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains. "The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred." Link https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/ ... businesses Well you learn something every day. On reading below it's a lot greyer than I believed, so there could be a case to answer. I guess it depends on the definition of rescued, taken over or transferred. But, employees could only claim for the loss they incurred, so player x had a 2 year contract with BBN for 2 years at £40k per year, but accepted a 2 year contract at £30k per year, he could only claim £20k. Also, I believe all the players who left before new co was set up would struggle to get anything, they took their chance on gaining employment before new co could offer them anything. Perhaps that's what Chisholmwas doing at Belle Vue on Sunday 6. Insolvent businesses If the employer is insolvent and the business is being transferred or taken over by another company, the protection employees get is different from in a normal transfer. The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred.

Nelson wrote: I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains. "The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred." Link https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/ ... businesses Well you learn something every day. On reading below it's a lot greyer than I believed, so there could be a case to answer. I guess it depends on the definition of rescued, taken over or transferred. But, employees could only claim for the loss they incurred, so player x had a 2 year contract with BBN for 2 years at £40k per year, but accepted a 2 year contract at £30k per year, he could only claim £20k. Also, I believe all the players who left before new co was set up would struggle to get anything, they took their chance on gaining employment before new co could offer them anything. Perhaps that's what Chisholmwas doing at Belle Vue on Sunday 6. Insolvent businesses If the employer is insolvent and the business is being transferred or taken over by another company, the protection employees get is different from in a normal transfer. The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred.

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 3:11 pm  

Given the newco's lawyers don't seem to have a clue about how contracts, visas or other legal documents work I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up somehow paying the salaries for the entire championship!

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 3:30 pm  

7. Employees have rights if their employer is insolvent and owes them money. Employees can claim for this whether they’re protected under TUPE or not.

In a TUPE-protected transfer, the new employer must pay any amount left over after employees have been paid from the government’s National Insurance fund.



However as Redeveready said, all the staff got made redundant by the administrator. I think at the very worst the new co will have to pay Decembers wages.

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 3:42 pm  

I think there may be some interesting revelations regarding the RFL and their desired/eventual outcome.

Imagine if players and staff could have been tuped, but for some reason, the potential 'New Company' was refused a seat at the table?

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 3:42 pm  

Glad this has come up. The season is a write off as far as rugby is concerned and we are all probably more versed in legal and financial matters anyway after the last five years.

Re: Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead : Wed May 10, 2017 4:05 pm  

Further to my last post regarding TUPE . The extract below from ACAS seems to confirm that Bulls newco are potentially liable as they fit as having taken over all the relevant bullet points. Business transfers The TUPE regulations apply if a business or part of a business moves to a new owner or merges with another business to make a brand new employer. A part of a business might for example be a distribution function of a larger organisation. Under the TUPE regulations, a business is not judged by its name but by the use made of its assets such as the: * premises *  equipment * work in progress *  goodwill (such as the value of a brand name or a customer base) * intellectual property * employees. http://m.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/j/p/Hand ... -Guide.pdf

Further to my last post regarding TUPE . The extract below from ACAS seems to confirm that Bulls newco are potentially liable as they fit as having taken over all the relevant bullet points. Business transfers The TUPE regulations apply if a business or part of a business moves to a new owner or merges with another business to make a brand new employer. A part of a business might for example be a distribution function of a larger organisation. Under the TUPE regulations, a business is not judged by its name but by the use made of its assets such as the: * premises *  equipment * work in progress *  goodwill (such as the value of a brand name or a customer base) * intellectual property * employees. http://m.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/j/p/Hand ... -Guide.pdf