Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:11 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

He hasn't invested anything like that amount of money.

Purchase price was £225k & he recently put an unconfirmed amount in, rumoured to be £900k. £1.26 at the very most.

Jesus wept.....it makes no difference if he put 1 million, 10 million or 50 million into the club...the fact remains that money was needed to pay the wages from July and no other revenue streams have been announced since, but wages still need to be paid.

I get it...everything at Bradford is fine.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:20 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Anything which really does have a value of £3m, can be sold for something in that order. I could say my dog is valued at £3m, and to me it probably is, but as nobody would pay that, it is almost as meaningless. Nobody, but nobody, being remotely interested in buying my dog at anything approaching my valuation is all I need to know. I can boldly insist its value is £3m, but in any sense that actually matters, it's not.

Well. Khan certainly bought a puppy

You understood the point very well. Your new question doesn't make any sense. The relevant question is whether the bills were paid, and they were, albeit late.

It wasn't a new question.

The target was ambitious. "Totally unrealistic" is just your jaundiced view. We've had that number in the recent past and I'd assume that if we set an ambitious target of 10K then secretly we'd have been aiming for maybe 8K plus. Given the way in which the Bulls fans stuck together during the crisis and the goodwill that was evident at that time, I too am disappointed that this only materialised in 6.5k. I didn't expect 10k, but 6.5k was a bit poor to be honest. And why wouldn't GS be disappointed? And what is the relevance if he expressed his disappointment "on more than one occasion"? "

It was totally unrealistic given that fans had been stung for £400k & £80 season tickets numbered less than that 10k target. Perhaps you need to take a closer look at the Khan/Sutcliffe/Whitcut relationship to understand better

Bullcrap. Loans are a normal part of company life. Show me a club which has no loans.

Of course they do. In the case of the Bulls to have two so large in the first year of operation points to a lack of capital investment by the owner. Council tax payers money being used to prop up a business owned by the long time funder of the local MP?

Where is he doing that, then?

I'd suggest you ask the T&A reporters who deal with Khan, or read any of the statements attributed to him or Whitcut surrounding this investment in his own business. Why would he seek to publicise it?

The remark re the Bulls is pretty much stating the bleedin obvious, but wtf is the relevance of City to any of this?

For example JCT600 dropped the Bulls & now back City. Equally other companies will be attracted to City first given their prominence & success. Crowds too are reflecting the relative fortunes of both clubs

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:27 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Jesus wept.....it makes no difference if he put 1 million, 10 million or 50 million into the club...the fact remains that money was needed to pay the wages from July and no other revenue streams have been announced since, but wages still need to be paid.

I get it...everything at Bradford is fine.

On the contrary, it is always wise to try & use accurate figures. I didn't make any suggestion that there was not a real underlying problem that led to late wages & tax bill payments.

The club has claimed the Bartercard naming deal will generate a six figure annual sum. Very hard to believe when it has just 55,000 cardholders worldwide.

The Bulls are in big trouble. Interest & credibility is declining rapidly. The owners don't seem to be cutting their pattern according to the cloth they have. The club has big debts to service & and an owner who is too egotistical to allow anyone else part ownership.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:29 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

On the contrary, it is always wise to try & use accurate figures. I didn't make any suggestion that there was not a real underlying problem that led to late wages & tax bill payments.

The club has claimed the Bartercard naming deal will generate a six figure annual sum. Very hard to believe when it has just 55,000 cardholders worldwide.

The Bulls are in big trouble. Interest & credibility is declining rapidly. The owners don't seem to be cutting their pattern according to the cloth they have. The club has big debts to service & and an owner who is too egotistical to allow anyone else part ownership.

Must be awful for you being so bitter!

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:52 pm  

Been looking at this thread for a couple of days.

At first I thought that Gutterfax was just trolling, but after reading some of his arguments, I'm starting to feel that his reasoning includes some thought.

The timing of the new 'pledge' and the deadline the club has created for itself makes me a little nervous. The money that the 1000 fans raise over the next week will be around £280k, this being pretty close to the monthly wage bill.

I would like to think that every move the club makes is an exciting new venture allowing fans to engage with their club, but I'm getting a repetitive impression that each move the club makes is done with the intention of surviving for 1 more month.

I'm concerned that these 'oversights' by the accounts department and Ryan are becoming a little regular, and the fact that the club refused to make a statement regarding last months wages makes me think there was a little more to that story.

Wasn't there Sunday (looks like I tore my ACL on Sat), but can anyone confirm if the new pledge allows the fans to still use the 3 month payment option (and still be included into the 1000). If not, then I will be concerned as this would indicate the club is not interested in the amount of fans on the terraces next year, but the amount of cash that 1000 fans can contribute over a 7 day period.

I'm all for supporting the cause and that, but after last year (when fans we're lied to and told to throw their money into a magical pot) I find myself looking a little deeper into some decisions/announcements. Surely I'm not the only one a little concerned??

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:57 pm  

daveyz999 wrote:

At first I thought that Gutterfax was just trolling,

Given the negativity running through most of my posts in recent years, an easy and excusable mistake to make.

daveyz999 wrote:

Surely I'm not the only one a little concerned??

You would hope not. I admire the way that FA and Roo2 defend their club....god knows I've eaten enough bridge dwellers on the London board over the years, but there is a series of events at Bradford that do point in a worrying direction.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:15 pm  

daveyz999 wrote:

Surely I'm not the only one a little concerned??

nope, probably far from it, and as much as we dont like to read it, there are some uncomfortable elements in the posts from gutterfax when you compare it to last year and whats going on in RL at other clubs like wakey and london.

But, as there is little I can do other than what I do every season, I will be doing it again - buy the season ticket, buy some merchandise around xmas and the start of the new season, turn up to as many games as I can afford to home and away (dont live anywhere near Bradford), and hope for the best, or at least some entertainment on the pitch.


It is worrying, but the people running the club now are not the ones who lied to us last year. Therefore at the moment Im prepared to belive most of what Im told, and give Mr Khan all the respect he deserves for putting his money in (where would we be without him?) and hope for the best, but with a touch of waryness, and put most of the issues down to new people climbing out of a hole that is deeper than they expected....but nothing will surprise me.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:17 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

First of the lot with regard to the 900k was the Wages owing from July......leaving 700k. You would expect that the next big expenditure would be Augusts wages and given Catalans and London where the 2 teams visiting, it's fair to say another 200k has been chipped off the "loan" leaving 500k.
September is the last month for wages (during the season) and other than the visit of Huddersfield this weekend, there has been no announcement regarding "new revenue streams" for this year, so your 900k is now 300k.
If I make allowances for a final SKY TV payment of 100k, then that figure goes up to 400k.

October is a quiet month, where players have left and stadium staff (excepting management) have all been laid off with view to re-hiring, so let's say 100k on October. November, the NEW players and existing squad return to training.....back up to say 150k a month for Nov, Dec and January.... so before a fan walks through the gates in February, there's another 550k in wages to be paid.

Now, I am not saying that other sponsors wont be found and other revenue streams wont open up, but all of the above stems from 900k being needed to, in part, pay July's wages.

Queue a few precious fans getting defensive and telling me of the millions in corporate and sponsorship revenue I have missed, but the reality is, where were these millions in July when you had wages to pay?

1. Where has the £200k wages figure come from? We clearly are well below the cap, and the admin costs are massively less than the previous regime, so please detail the 12x£200k = £2400k annual wage bill.
2. detail the £840k investment for me please, I seem to have missed this bit of news. The detail I want is who the £840k was paid to. So, for example, paying £225k to the RECEIVERS is not a cash injection into the CLUB.
4. Loans. when were they taken out by OK Bulls, how much, what were the repayment terms, and if OKB are in default, how long for and totals unpaid? and what have the bank done about it?
4. note that I am not being defensive, merely asking you to evidence your comments with reference to external sources .
5. Yes, you are dazzlingly observant about the gap between one season and another, I really could not have thought of that one. (cue much self -flagellation and -abuse for being so STUPID as to not have realised this fact) However, to anybody experienced in the financial management of a business, the signs were there several months, ago as was the knowledge that OKB was doing something about it.

So if you are so clever, why didnt you make your stupid futile comments three months ago, instead of reacting like a pbrain to the news of a dismissal of a winding up petition? Do you know that (thanks mainly to football clubs protecting the grossly overpaid footballers from all other creditors including HMRC) that sports clubs are jumped on by HMRC, hence the RFL (not superleague) interest in ensuring all clubs meet their commitments?

7. not your comment, gutterf*ck, someone else's, but I might as well deal with two onanissts at the same time. "Omar Khan is trying to make himself out to be some sort of hero". I have seen Ryan make the statement that OK is putting money in, not OK himself. I have seen Suttcliffe say that OK is not a sugar daddy, he has limited resources. Please show me where OK himself says that he is a hero. for the record, I do think he is a hero that needs the support of 10000 season ticket holders. and also for the record, I am not OK, I cannot cook a curry to save my life.

davyz999 yes as a Bulls fan i was concerned 3 months ago unlike the gutterpress, but look at what you are saying yourself, that the annual wages bill is £3360K. it just about hit that figure in the precap days when we had full stadiums and won the prizemoney for worldclub championships etc etc etc. Yes, be concerned, but dont get dragged down to the level of the gutter.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:19 pm  

Where is Adeybull while all this is going on?

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:19 pm  

Ewwenorfolk wrote:

Must be awful for you being so bitter!

Bitter? About what?