[Bulliac]

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:17 am  

martinwildbull wrote:

Bulliac there was no prepack and Ok is clearly not in control, its Marc Green. and yet 6 points have been deducted. The RFL seem keen to draw as hard a line as possible, otherwise any excuse could be used for going into admin with no penalty. As FA would say, the way to sort out HMRC was to pay them, that was within the clubs control. Imo it needs a genuine outside of the clubs control reason for the appeal.

I've just re-read my post and don't think I suggested there was a pre-pack or that OK was in control Martin - I think you may have been confused by the general preamble about admin in general, and what I feel is the major bugbear that many have about the system, in the first two paragraphs and the Bulls specifics at the bottom.

On FA's way to sort out creditors, well yes, it's perfect - the one flaw, maybe, the fact that if all the companies could afford to pay the creditors there would be no need for the whole admin/winding up procedure in the first place. Of course, every business should 'live within its means', etc but back in real life we all know what happens from time to time. Maybe every company should be legally forced to have untouchable 'clients accounts', then HMRC should never be a problem?

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 am  

FickleFingerOfFate wrote:

The 'when' is very relevant, as the Bulls line up for the first fixture of 2013 against us doesn't look to have been ravaged by player sales and cost cutting.
A least we can agree that there will be no concrete guidelines from the RFL.
Just more rumour and speculation to keep the forums going!

Ah diddums, just take a couple of seconds to think how much much much (get the idea by now?) worse that timing was for us, and also read the article in the TnA. You are already lining up the excuses for relegation. the first admin of course the RFL insisted on the squad being kept together so that it was a level playing field for teams, this time they seem to have passed their own verdict on whether it materially affects Wakefield by allowing a cherry picking free for all.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:39 am  

martinwildbull wrote:

Ah diddums, just take a couple of seconds to think how much much much (get the idea by now?) worse that timing was for us, and also read the article in the TnA. You are already lining the excuses for relegation. the first admin of course the RFL insisted on the squad being kept together so that it was a level playing field for teams, this time they seem to have passed their own verdict on whether it materially affects Wakefield by allowing a cherry picking free for all.

Not making excuses at all.
If the RFL insisted you kept your squad together to maintain a level playing field, maybe they should have insisted that for you to be able to do this, you could afford them?
As for players being able to leave to raise part of the £400,000.
One minute they were, next minute they were 'ring fenced'.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:51 am  

And lets look at the wildcats will be demoted for going into admin issue.

what they would have suffered for deliberately going into admin (ring up and ask what the consequences would be - and then claim it is unforeseen- hahaha) would be 6 points. Now comes the harder bit. the entry fee for a franchise for the year is all the sky funding. Full stop. No two years over which to spread it. the only outcome of these two would be relegation. So Carter might just be putting a slant on the friendly advice he got from the RFL, that because they would have to ensure a level playing field the penalties for going into admin were so ONEROUS that the only foreseeable outcome was relegation. Or have
Wakefiedl fans not heard of PR? and can they do arithmetic? -6 points - £1.2M = relegation x 100%

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:15 am  

martinwildbull wrote:

And lets look at the wildcats will be demoted for going into admin issue.

what they would have suffered for deliberately going into admin (ring up and ask what the consequences would be - and then claim it is unforeseen- hahaha) would be 6 points. Now comes the harder bit. the entry fee for a franchise for the year is all the sky funding. Full stop. No two years over which to spread it. the only outcome of these two would be relegation. So Carter might just be putting a slant on the friendly advice he got from the RFL, that because they would have to ensure a level playing field the penalties for going into admin were so ONEROUS that the only foreseeable outcome was relegation. Or have
Wakefiedl fans not heard of PR? and can they do arithmetic? -6 points - £1.2M = relegation x 100%

MC made hard and unpopular decisions when it came apparent that we could go into admin, he grasped the nettle and sorted it.
We started our clear out about September time, Bulls probably could have done the same but waited til December.
Bradford dragged their feet and by the time it was accepted they were in trouble, the situation had become much worse.
Resulting in having to release players from their contracts and getting peanuts for the ones that were still under contract.
I think Wake fans and the club can do arithmetic a little better now than the first time around.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:27 am  

The Bulls initial administration was to get rid of the previous owner. Players did not need to be sold, as the new owners would fund the club. The offer made to the administrator, apparently, included paying all creditors in full (think over a 5 year period).

At this point of the saga, I don't think we needed to 'cut our cloth'.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:36 am  

FickleFingerOfFate wrote:

Not making excuses at all.
If the RFL insisted you kept your squad together to maintain a level playing field, maybe they should have insisted that for you to be able to do this, you could afford them?
As for players being able to leave to raise part of the £400,000.
One minute they were, next minute they were 'ring fenced'.

yes, one more great bit of timing for us. OK decided hed had enough, and sort of handed the reins (or did he) over to the trio who said they needed to make the savings as OK Bulls, and then saw that they needed a clean start hence bulls 2014. the ringfencing was declared for the newco bulls 2014 - or should have been, as the deal did not go through. and again, no owner in their right mind would shout firesale, come and get them, buy one prop get one free!!!

Carter is doing a very good job building what is called in sports motivation circles "the siege mentality". The only trouble with it is that under a siege, those subject to it are restrained within the confines of their own chosen locality. So hes not quite got it right just yet. its the players that should be running around causing a riot on the pitch, not sugar-rushed trolls running around causing havoc on other forums.


added following your last post "mc made hard and unpopular decisions..."
I have great respect for what Carter is doing behind the PR front. Again, timing. I wish that OK had got out when he said, and with a hand over in place. But he did not. OK was not interested, and quite rightly in my opinion the trio were not interested in assuming responsibility without ownership. and that dragged on and on. so yes, Wakefield are very fortunate that they got the timing right. But dont assume that that fortune was shared by the bulls, it took admin before the trio could contemplate wrestling ownership from OK. critical time, as Wakefield have shown.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:41 am  

and its a bit difficult to argue with my (sorry, the RFL's) arithmetic, isnt it? just in case you have forgotten, 6 points deduction and 1.2m funding deduction = championship for certain, dress it up how you wish.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:45 am  

martinwildbull wrote:

yes, one more great bit of timing for us. OK decided hed had enough, and sort of handed the reins (or did he) over to the trio who said they needed to make the savings as OK Bulls, and then saw that they needed a clean start hence bulls 2014. the ringfencing was declared for the newco bulls 2014 - or should have been, as the deal did not go through. and again, no owner in their right mind would shout firesale, come and get them, buy one prop get one free!!!

Carter is doing a very good job building what is called in sports motivation circles "the siege mentality". The only trouble with it is that under a siege, those subject to it are restrained within the confines of their own chosen locality. So hes not quite got it right just yet. its the players that should be running around causing a riot on the pitch, not sugar-rushed trolls running around causing havoc on other forums.


added following your last post "mc made hard and unpopular decisions..."
I have great respect for what Carter is doing behind the PR front. Again, timing. I wish that OK had got out when he said, and with a hand over in place. But he did not. OK was not interested, and quite rightly in my opinion the trio were not interested in assuming responsibility without ownership. and that dragged on and on. so yes, Wakefield are very fortunate that they got the timing right. But dont assume that that fortune was shared by the bulls, it took admin before the trio could contemplate wrestling ownership from OK. critical time, as Wakefield have shown.

Fair play, not got a problem with this explanation.
Just the troll bit.

Re: marc green : Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:41 pm  

I think it will be very difficult for a successful appeal.
The company OK Bulls was making losses of £100000 a month to Ok"s resignation.

No attempt to cut costs was made.
Until the new ownership saga dragged for 5 months.
Indeed costs increased under Ok and revenue fell.

No proper books were kept which are fundamental to understanding of a companies current financial position.

The £1.2 million withheld from The club was known about from the outset of OK"s tenure.

Some points may have been recovered if Marc Green was to commit to pay all the creditors or even some as in the Wakefield comparison.
But with results and crowds of the past two weeks and championship staring in the face ....Would you?

No a proper balls up has been made and it would be ridiculous to try isolate single events (EG HMRC wind up petition mid January)as been an event under force majoeur.

The Bulls went into admin because.
1.The owner had run out of money
2.The owner blindly carried on regardless depite been aware he was losing 3600k a year in guaranteed income.
3.the owner increased costs (Robbie backroom staff )at atime he was struggling to pay existing contractual arrangements.Look at the creditors list.Some go back nearly 12 months without been paid.

The club was broke lock stock barrel.

Of course admin could have been avoided.
By recognizing the problems faced as early as September 2012 and acting accordingly.
The deluded are clutching at straws.

Its been a complete set of rubbish for over three years.
And no doubt I will be added to that list as fans desperatelt try to find justification and argument for a complete basket case.
I"ll get me coat