Re: Oscar Thomas : Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:28 pm  

It's all very well talking about a 'clear out' but who are we going to get who is decent when we are playing in League One?

It comes back, again, to the issue of full-time vs part-time. If we try and stay full time we are going to be having to sign the very worst players who are prepared to be full-time? Because all the better full-time players are going to play at SL level or top of the Championship level.

As we've seen throughout this season, that level of full-time player isn't good enough to match the part-time players in the Championship.

It might just get us through League One, I suppose - but maybe not, as we are going to be up against some highly motivated teams such as Keighley, Hunslet, Whitehaven (or Barrow, whichever doesn't go up with Toronto), Workington, plus whoever gets relegated with us - just the sort of teams who seem to be able to raise their game and roll over 'the mighty Bulls'

Re: Oscar Thomas : Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:55 pm  

paulwalker71 wrote:

It's all very well talking about a 'clear out' but who are we going to get who is decent when we are playing in League One?

It comes back, again, to the issue of full-time vs part-time. If we try and stay full time we are going to be having to sign the very worst players who are prepared to be full-time? Because all the better full-time players are going to play at SL level or top of the Championship level.

As we've seen throughout this season, that level of full-time player isn't good enough to match the part-time players in the Championship.

It might just get us through League One, I suppose - but maybe not, as we are going to be up against some highly motivated teams such as Keighley, Hunslet, Whitehaven (or Barrow, whichever doesn't go up with Toronto), Workington, plus whoever gets relegated with us - just the sort of teams who seem to be able to raise their game and roll over 'the mighty Bulls'

Top and bottom money talks. If the money is going to be there to tempt better players they will come, I think with recent signings there seems to be an ability to bring people in. If not its difficult to say where we will be. The fact Phil Jospeh went to Workington rather than sign full time with us said a lot about what was on offer at the start of the year. One thing regardless of league that needs to happen is the complacent attitude we saw under Jimmy. In League One I think part time is the way to compete for the better players if we arent in a position to do a Toronto

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:27 am  

paulwalker71 wrote:

It's all very well talking about a 'clear out' but who are we going to get who is decent when we are playing in League One?

It comes back, again, to the issue of full-time vs part-time. If we try and stay full time we are going to be having to sign the very worst players who are prepared to be full-time? Because all the better full-time players are going to play at SL level or top of the Championship level.

As we've seen throughout this season, that level of full-time player isn't good enough to match the part-time players in the Championship.

It might just get us through League One, I suppose - but maybe not, as we are going to be up against some highly motivated teams such as Keighley, Hunslet, Whitehaven (or Barrow, whichever doesn't go up with Toronto), Workington, plus whoever gets relegated with us - just the sort of teams who seem to be able to raise their game and roll over 'the mighty Bulls'

Toronto appear to have done alright with a full time squad in League 1.

It's all about the money...

[Bulliac]

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:14 pm  

thepimp007 wrote:

Top and bottom money talks. If the money is going to be there to tempt better players they will come, I think with recent signings there seems to be an ability to bring people in. If not its difficult to say where we will be. The fact Phil Jospeh went to Workington rather than sign full time with us said a lot about what was on offer at the start of the year. One thing regardless of league that needs to happen is the complacent attitude we saw under Jimmy. In League One I think part time is the way to compete for the better players if we arent in a position to do a Toronto

It's true we've brought in names which I'd have though unrealistic a few months back.

Leaving aside the finance, and how it's 'suddenly appeared' when we'd all pretty much accepted that there wasn't any, the one thing we don't know is the content of the contracts. We're all well aware of the, "if a SL club comes in for me", terms and the fact that SL contracts are automatically ended on relegation, but maybe it also works between Championship and Champ1 in exactly the same way? Maybe the new signings, which appear to cover next season, just won't apply if we get relegated. Maybe all our squad will be free agents?

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:44 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

It's true we've brought in names which I'd have though unrealistic a few months back.

Leaving aside the finance, and how it's 'suddenly appeared' when we'd all pretty much accepted that there wasn't any, the one thing we don't know is the content of the contracts. We're all well aware of the, "if a SL club comes in for me", terms and the fact that SL contracts are automatically ended on relegation, but maybe it also works between Championship and Champ1 in exactly the same way? Maybe the new signings, which appear to cover next season, just won't apply if we get relegated. Maybe all our squad will be free agents?

And considering the total lack of answers you get on every other subject from ChaLo, I wouldn't expect to know about those things until said players either turn out for us next season or confirm they've gone elsewhere.

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:30 pm  

daveyz999 wrote:

Toronto appear to have done alright with a full time squad in League 1.

It's all about the money...

I think its partly about money, yes.

But surely there's more to it with Toronto? Signing for Toronto is an adventure, a project that has something fresh and new about it. It involves living part of the year in a buzzing and vibrant city in Canada, and being part of something that could break the mould of rugby league as we know it.

You'd have to agree, surely, that this represents a more exciting and interesting prospect than signing up for a busted fallen giant that has recent history of not paying it's employees, and has training in the cold and wet Bradford weather?

Or to put it more simply. If a player is offered exactly the same money to join Toronto or the Bulls, which do you think they'd choose?

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:51 pm  

paulwalker71 wrote: I think its partly about money, yes. But surely there's more to it with Toronto? Signing for Toronto is an adventure, a project that has something fresh and new about it. It involves living part of the year in a buzzing and vibrant city in Canada, and being part of something that could break the mould of rugby league as we know it. You'd have to agree, surely, that this represents a more exciting and interesting prospect than signing up for a busted fallen giant that has recent history of not paying it's employees, and has training in the cold and wet Bradford weather? Or to put it more simply. If a player is offered exactly the same money to join Toronto or the Bulls, which do you think they'd choose? And a perfectly timed confirmation of this view point from Ryan Brierley https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2017/jul/18/ryan-brierley-toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-leigh-huddersfield-giants?CMP=share_btn_link

paulwalker71 wrote: I think its partly about money, yes. But surely there's more to it with Toronto? Signing for Toronto is an adventure, a project that has something fresh and new about it. It involves living part of the year in a buzzing and vibrant city in Canada, and being part of something that could break the mould of rugby league as we know it. You'd have to agree, surely, that this represents a more exciting and interesting prospect than signing up for a busted fallen giant that has recent history of not paying it's employees, and has training in the cold and wet Bradford weather? Or to put it more simply. If a player is offered exactly the same money to join Toronto or the Bulls, which do you think they'd choose? And a perfectly timed confirmation of this view point from Ryan Brierley https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2017/jul/18/ryan-brierley-toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-leigh-huddersfield-giants?CMP=share_btn_link

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:18 pm  

Errol Stock wrote: And a perfectly timed confirmation of this view point from Ryan Brierley https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2017/jul/18/ryan-brierley-toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-leigh-huddersfield-giants?CMP=share_btn_link He went for the free donuts! Mmmmmm..... donuts

Errol Stock wrote: And a perfectly timed confirmation of this view point from Ryan Brierley https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2017/jul/18/ryan-brierley-toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-leigh-huddersfield-giants?CMP=share_btn_link He went for the free donuts! Mmmmmm..... donuts

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:51 pm  

paulwalker71 wrote:

I think its partly about money, yes.

But surely there's more to it with Toronto? Signing for Toronto is an adventure, a project that has something fresh and new about it. It involves living part of the year in a buzzing and vibrant city in Canada, and being part of something that could break the mould of rugby league as we know it.

You'd have to agree, surely, that this represents a more exciting and interesting prospect than signing up for a busted fallen giant that has recent history of not paying it's employees, and has training in the cold and wet Bradford weather?

Or to put it more simply. If a player is offered exactly the same money to join Toronto or the Bulls, which do you think they'd choose?

I think it's all about the "Vision".

I would imagine it would be just as easy to sell the packing of getting the Bulls back to the top, with the promise of a super competitive team, with the guaranteed backing of finance. We are a brand, that still holds a place in the recent greats.

Also worth remembering these players that are going to Toronto for a wedge of cash, can't admit that, so an "Adventure" is the next best excuse.

At the same salary, with same "safe" rich owners, i'd expect the Bulls to be just as attractive, if not more so (think about players with families) than the Toronto project.

Re: Oscar Thomas : Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:56 pm  

I've made a similar point before. Obviously the difference between us and Toronto is minted vs skint, but as a challenge, it was always very predictable that they'd have a great season in C1 as the big exotic dig, and create a great buzz about the place. Had the RFL let us do C1, we'd have had a similar big-dog year, all else being equal, and I think everyone would've had a positive year, and would've been a years prep for Champonship, for which we'd then have been at least better equipped. Whereas if we go down, everyone's on a major downer and it won't be easy to recover

Unless, of course, we hit some Toronto style backing as the money will talk as to who stays and comes next year. But that doesn't seem to be our style