Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:43 am  

Does anybody know who "threatened" Gledhill for telling the truth and reporting facts last week? He never did say.

Mick, who was it?

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:58 am  

This is an open forum. Everyone is entitled to participate and have their own opinion. I dont think anybody has a problem with that and so anyone is open to post.

The problem is when we get posters who like to pretend they are in the know to, I assume, get some attention. They put out cryptic open ended posts then collect scraps of information already out in the public domain and then tie them back to pretend they knew all along. The same people who never reveal anything pre it going public and quote them not being able to.

Over the years (god it has been years hasn’t it!) we’ve seen this from lots of different posters (or maybe it’s the same person who knows..) and mostly it’s harmless if not very annoying. Most choose to ignore them and only believe official lines, some get swept up in the rumour, each to their own. The problem is when these people play with peoples lives. That is not fair. Lying to a player’s dad knowing what he and his family is going though to squeeze more information to boost your ego is embarrassing.

Anyway moving on. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of the fans forum. The takeover must go through before then. I feel like it will be too late to save the majority of players this year making next year survival only. I want to support what we have left I really do but I’m not sure I can. Let’s see how it looks in February

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:22 am  

Bulls4 wrote:

Anyway moving on. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of the fans forum. The takeover must go through before then. I feel like it will be too late to save the majority of players this year making next year survival only. I want to support what we have left I really do but I’m not sure I can. Let’s see how it looks in February

If the takeover does go through, the only contracted players that can leave legally would be the ones who have cited breach of contract over the pensions issue. And even that's being disputed as to whether they can or not. It's not like the previous situations where administration / liquidation have rendered contracts null and void, a takeover means those contracts remain. I don't think there's even an argument to "do a Kopczak" if the current holding company are taken over, rather than people being TUPEd over to a new company.

Don't get me wrong, there'll still be heavy recruitment needed as the current roster isn't large, but they won't be starting from scratch in the same way of the last time.

I would think people are confident enough that the takeover will go through in the next 7 days, otherwise who in their right mind would call a fans forum at a club they don't even own yet? That would be the stuff of madness, and we never see any madness where this club is involved, do we? Oh wait.

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:45 am  

Bulls4 wrote:

...The takeover must go through before then. I feel like it will be too late to save the majority of players this year making next year survival only. I want to support what we have left I really do but I’m not sure I can. Let’s see how it looks in February

Me too. I bought my season ticket, to help the club's cashflow. What a mug (albeit with the precaution of on a credit card).

Despite having paid, and been a loyal fan for more decades than I care to think, if the team ends up being destroyed and we are a new set of unknowns playing in Dewsbury at a low level, I won't be going. There is no point. You could spend another few years watching the house being rebuilt from the foundations up (although to think we could achieve what we have this reincarnation again is extremely optimistic, with no outside money and having already apparently spent all next year's funding), how could you be confident it was not just a matter of time before it all crashes down again?

And you would live through all that pain expecting that soon it will go bust all over again, or else be so starved of money that we become another lower-league club in perpetuity, a pathetic and rather malodorous remnant of what used to be a shining light in the game.

It's really depressing. Odsal killed off, and now all these disasters serially crawling out of the woodwork.

When Chalmers was appointed, I said that I couldn't see why he would get involved. there seemed no obvious reason for New Zealanders to do so. But he was handpicked by RFL and as the successful years have rolled by, you could be forgiven (if you ignored the state of the published accounts and the rumours) to think that in he and his team we finally had someone who knew what they were generally doing, even if not perfect and poor at communication. What is peoples' view of Chalmers know? Like everyone else, he isn't saying much, and the last straw for me is dismissing the pensions debacle as an "administrative error".

If the new wannabees think that having a fans forum when they don't own the club and haven't even been approved, is acceptable in a situation where the poor players apparently know feck-all, then they must be mad. If they were arranging anything it should have been a players' forum, to attempt to stop them all leaving and to try to repair some of the vast damage to morale.

I'm still hoping against hope, for something acceptable to be salvaged from the latest wreckage, but can't see it. As I have been saying for years, I heard a long time ago that the official plan was to kill off the Bulls altogether. So it came to pass. I thought that bringing us to liquidation may have been the end of that plan, but perhaps not. Forced out of Odsal, and incomprehensibly seemingly bust yet again, despite being in the care of the RFL's hand-picked placeman and under their watchful eye, it is hard to see how nobody knew which way this was going. Whatever the outcome, the whole situation is a f#ck!ng travesty, completely unacceptable, and I am unsure either the Bulls, or me as a fan, can recover from it.

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:54 am  

DILLIGAF wrote:

If the takeover does go through, the only contracted players that can leave legally would be the ones who have cited breach of contract over the pensions issue. And even that's being disputed as to whether they can or not. It's not like the previous situations where administration / liquidation have rendered contracts null and void, a takeover means those contracts remain. I don't think there's even an argument to "do a Kopczak" if the current holding company are taken over, rather than people being TUPEd over to a new company.

Don't get me wrong, there'll still be heavy recruitment needed as the current roster isn't large, but they won't be starting from scratch in the same way of the last time.

I would think people are confident enough that the takeover will go through in the next 7 days, otherwise who in their right mind would call a fans forum at a club they don't even own yet? That would be the stuff of madness, and we never see any madness where this club is involved, do we? Oh wait.

Let's talk hypothetically, and not about the Bulls, as we (well I) don't know what has gone on, apart from the glib explanation of an "administrative error".

If it turned out that over the past couple of years, your employer was taking off you your pension contributions, but spending them instead of paying into the pension pot (plus breaking the law by not putting in the employer's contribution), then in the same way as if YOU had been stealing from your employer for 2 years would be grounds for summary dismissal, that must swing both ways.

So in the Bulls' case, it would depend on what the actual facts figures and reasons, if and when they emerge, but I can't see how anyone can "dispute" it unless that anyone can explain what actually happened. If it is true that it was an "administrative error" then that's great, they can simply move the money from wherever it was administratively misdirected, with fair interest, and all would (probably) be good.

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:12 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Let's talk hypothetically, and not about the Bulls, as we (well I) don't know what has gone on, apart from the glib explanation of an "administrative error".

If it turned out that over the past couple of years, your employer was taking off you your pension contributions, but spending them instead of paying into the pension pot (plus breaking the law by not putting in the employer's contribution), then in the same way as if YOU had been stealing from your employer for 2 years would be grounds for summary dismissal, that must swing both ways.

So in the Bulls' case, it would depend on what the actual facts figures and reasons, if and when they emerge, but I can't see how anyone can "dispute" it unless that anyone can explain what actually happened. If it is true that it was an "administrative error" then that's great, they can simply move the money from wherever it was administratively misdirected, with fair interest, and all would (probably) be good.

I don't disagree with you. I simply say it's being disputed because noises from the club appear to be saying that. Without knowing the full details of what the impact is (i.e. the actual figures rather than the different ones various parties are quoting), it's difficult to say if the grounds are legit or not. But I certainly know which side of the argument I'd be putting my money on if someone forced me to place a bet, and it isn't on the side of it being an "admin error". But without the full facts, it's nothing but educated guesswork.

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:40 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Me too. I bought my season ticket, to help the club's cashflow. What a mug (albeit with the precaution of on a credit card).

Despite having paid, and been a loyal fan for more decades than I care to think, if the team ends up being destroyed and we are a new set of unknowns playing in Dewsbury at a low level, I won't be going. There is no point. You could spend another few years watching the house being rebuilt from the foundations up (although to think we could achieve what we have this reincarnation again is extremely optimistic, with no outside money and having already apparently spent all next year's funding), how could you be confident it was not just a matter of time before it all crashes down again?

And you would live through all that pain expecting that soon it will go bust all over again, or else be so starved of money that we become another lower-league club in perpetuity, a pathetic and rather malodorous remnant of what used to be a shining light in the game.

It's really depressing. Odsal killed off, and now all these disasters serially crawling out of the woodwork.

When Chalmers was appointed, I said that I couldn't see why he would get involved. there seemed no obvious reason for New Zealanders to do so. But he was handpicked by RFL and as the successful years have rolled by, you could be forgiven (if you ignored the state of the published accounts and the rumours) to think that in he and his team we finally had someone who knew what they were generally doing, even if not perfect and poor at communication. What is peoples' view of Chalmers know? Like everyone else, he isn't saying much, and the last straw for me is dismissing the pensions debacle as an "administrative error".

If the new wannabees think that having a fans forum when they don't own the club and haven't even been approved, is acceptable in a situation where the poor players apparently know feck-all, then they must be mad. If they were arranging anything it should have been a players' forum, to attempt to stop them all leaving and to try to repair some of the vast damage to morale.

I'm still hoping against hope, for something acceptable to be salvaged from the latest wreckage, but can't see it. As I have been saying for years, I heard a long time ago that the official plan was to kill off the Bulls altogether. So it came to pass. I thought that bringing us to liquidation may have been the end of that plan, but perhaps not. Forced out of Odsal, and incomprehensibly seemingly bust yet again, despite being in the care of the RFL's hand-picked placeman and under their watchful eye, it is hard to see how nobody knew which way this was going. Whatever the outcome, the whole situation is a f#ck!ng travesty, completely unacceptable, and I am unsure either the Bulls, or me as a fan, can recover from it.

You are not a mug - just simply a fan who loves the club.
I suspect you will like me, be complaining and moaning as you drive to the first game at Dewsbury next year

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:56 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Let's talk hypothetically, and not about the Bulls, as we (well I) don't know what has gone on, apart from the glib explanation of an "administrative error".

If it turned out that over the past couple of years, your employer was taking off you your pension contributions, but spending them instead of paying into the pension pot (plus breaking the law by not putting in the employer's contribution), then in the same way as if YOU had been stealing from your employer for 2 years would be grounds for summary dismissal, that must swing both ways.

So in the Bulls' case, it would depend on what the actual facts figures and reasons, if and when they emerge, but I can't see how anyone can "dispute" it unless that anyone can explain what actually happened. If it is true that it was an "administrative error" then that's great, they can simply move the money from wherever it was administratively misdirected, with fair interest, and all would (probably) be good.

I would imagine it just been a case of trying to buy some time to see if if could be salvaged. No club is going to announce those players signings until they know for certain it is deemed a clear breach and by appealing Bradford stopped a couple of clubs from announcing the signing of their players and making the situation look even worse than it does(if that is possible).

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:22 pm  

I know we are all talking about the takeover but if you sit back can you see any logic to it? Who would buy a club with no assets and renting a ground from someone else on the plus side and a massive pile of debts on the minus side? It looks more and more like another season with no team and a -12 start.

Re: Bulls Takeover : Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:43 pm  

DILLIGAF wrote:

I don't disagree with you. I simply say it's being disputed because noises from the club appear to be saying that. Without knowing the full details of what the impact is (i.e. the actual figures rather than the different ones various parties are quoting), it's difficult to say if the grounds are legit or not. But I certainly know which side of the argument I'd be putting my money on if someone forced me to place a bet, and it isn't on the side of it being an "admin error". But without the full facts, it's nothing but educated guesswork.

I agree, which is why I spoke hypothetically.

"Admin error" is hardly convincing but we don't actually know, and so it might be. The big question is, whatever it was, could they fix it? I.e. where was the money, if not in the pension pot? Hopefully in a different separate pot somewhere, so we should hear shortly that was the case and everyone's pension is back on track. Though we haven't heard it yet - but as against that - when did we ever hear anything? Not often.