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   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Points deduction poll
How many points do we think we will be deducted after appeal?::

Poll ended at Sat May 03, 2014 10:30 am

0
7
10%
2
8
12%
4
23
34%
6
23
34%
Immediate relegation and public flogging
7
10%
 
Total votes : 68
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:52 am  
Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:
I've got fa slightly ahead on points here but Jim Watt's scorecard favours league dweeb.


I'm waiting for a Froch right hander.
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:31 am  
Where's Harry?
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:54 am  
From all that has been said, on this and other threads (often ad nauseum), I feel sure most interested folk must surely have gained the impression by now that this was far from the simple "club runs out of money, club goes bust, club pays price" administration that so many blithly assume or attest?

Of course, some of us have said this all along, to face a barrage of derision and nastiness for our troubles, sadly too from moderators on other forums who should know better. Doubtless the barrage will resume, with increased intensity, once the results of the appeal are announced.

The only real new stuff for me that has come out on this thread is about the recent creditors meeting. Distilling the gist of it, it would seem from what has been said that:

- OK exercised his right to require the aministrator to convene a creditors meeting

- OK presented a claim - one presumes it was a formal "proof of debt"? - very much higher than the value ascribed to his claim in the Statement of Affairs drawn up by the administrator.

- it is unclear why OK's claim was very much higher than the amount recorded as owing to him in the company's books of account. It seems quite possible that , if the claim is valid, proper accounting records have not been kept - an offence under the Companies Act 2006. or, perhaps, he has included in his claim items where he has provided personal guarantees, so argues that HE should stand as the creditor? It all seems very unclear and very strange, and thus far no-one has been able to advance any plausible explanation for it. Dweeb would seemingly very much like to know where it came from. And so would I.

- That claim, provided admitted, would have enabled him to command a majority of the votes at the creditors meeting. As FA pointed out earlier, and in something I had not considered, this would have enabled him to initiate various actions including investigation into the circumstances behind and conduct of the administration. provided, of course, he funded it. One assumes that, when facing personal losses and claims that could well bankrupt you, you would use your best endeavours to stymie whatever you could. If so, then regardless of how responsible I hold OK for the catastrophe (=very much, but far from totally), I could fully understand this action.

- Then, it would seem, the RFL suddenly, and at the 11th hour, came up with a claim of its own as a creditor. Again, one assumes this was in the form of a formal "proof of debt". Again, something that was not recorded in the books and records of the company and, cursiously, something that the RFL seemingly did not lodge with the administrator at the earliest possibel opportunity. FA considers the nature and timing of this claim "odd", and would very much like to know where it came from. And so would I.

That claim, if admitted, was seemingly enoough to counter the claim by OK and, we assume, was sufficient to carry any votes against OK's position at the Creditors meeting? Certainly, the meeting looks to have approved the Administrator's proposals, and not agreed any further action regarding the circumstances behind and conduct of the Administration. That is now a matter of public record at Companies House (form 2.23b filed 21/5 - go pay your £1 to read it, so anyone asking "what happened at the creditors meeting?" can now shut up, since it is a matter of public record.

Readers may well note the curious amounts and timings of the respective claims seemingly lodged (from what our contributors on here report) by OK and by the RFL. And how the alleged RFL claim may effectively have stymied the alleged OK claim, as seems to be being suggested? Although some may still feel this was just a simple "club runs out of money, club goes bust, club pays price" administration, despite what seems to be a hell of a lot going on which is above and beyond what you would expect in such a situation?

Not that Bulls supporters are any strangers to there being much more behind an administration, and its conduct and ultimate resolution, than might first appear? Are we? 2012 redux?

I guess we will never know what would have happened, had Moore kept his mouth shut and not ever said anything to anyone about the (alleged lack of) points deduction? And I suspect we will anyway never really get to know just how extensive the role of the RFL may or may not have been in this whole sad, sorry debacle?
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:57 am  
Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:
I've got fa slightly ahead on points here but Jim Watt's scorecard favours league dweeb.

I just hope there isn't a re-match.... :DAISY:
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By far the most sensible posts on this thread have come from mystic eddie. - copyright Ewwenorfolk 09.04.2013

Aye, and Eddie is hinting at it too. And, as we all know:
Mystic Eddie has been right all along! - copyright vbfg 05.01.2017

Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:59 am  
Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:
I've got fa slightly ahead on points here but Jim Watt's scorecard favours league dweeb.


Let's hope the referee steps in and calls it off then.
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:07 am  
Adeybull wrote:

I guess we will never know what would have happened, had Moore kept his mouth shut and not ever said anything to anyone about the (alleged lack of) points deduction? And I suspect we will anyway never really get to know just how extensive the role of the RFL may or may not have been in this whole sad, sorry debacle?


In all that's passed since I'd quite forgotten that, Adey, but yeah, I guess it has to be added to the litany of small, but ultimately significant, mess ups which have undoubtedly helped to put us where we are.
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:18 am  
[quote=] "club runs out of money, club goes bust, club pays price" [/quote]

At last. That's it in a nutshell.

The only other issue of interest (except to a few on here) concerns the Sky money. i.e.
'You can stay in SL - but no Sky money this year'
ok, but can I have half this year and half next year instead?
ok - but if you go bust within two years the Club owes us the money back.
ok
and if we don't get it back from the Club, you owe us it personally.
ok
Last edited by Wooden Stand on Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:24 am  
Cut the disingenuous cräp. I expressly said that was NOT how this looks to be, as you well know.

If it WAS, then I would join you and the many others in having no argument.

But it must be as clear as day to even the most wooden-headed denialist that there must be much more to all this.
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:37 am  
I think initially it was a simple case of badly managed club runs out of money.

It is the attempts to avoid the responsibility and consequences which have become very tangled.
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Re: Points deduction poll : Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:47 am  
The other thing I would like to know more about is the RFL's decision to apply a 6 point penalty after BB2014 offered to pay all trade creditors in full over 5years. That seemed to completely wrong foot BB2014 and was not what they had expected after long & significant discussions with the RFL.

Is it something to do with the HMRC position that they can't accept payment if another creditor is getting nothing?

I can see a position where if trade creditors AND HMRC were going to be paid in full, but non trade creditors and Omar were going to get nothing, then the RFL would be comfortable defending a position where BB2014 didn't get a points deduction.

But the HMRC said they wouldn't accept that position.

Going off on a tangent - How would that work? I really cant see the conversation?

"BB2014 - Hi HMRC, you'll have noticed we've dropped £200k (which you were owed) into your account. And we've closed our account so you can't send it straight back.

HMRC - you blackhearted scoundrels. You knew we told you not to send us that money unless all creditors were paid. We will move heaven & earth to force you to take back this taxpayers money you cads...."

Any way, back on track. Here's my theory:

So the RFL plan started to unravel. Their priority is to make sure that HMRC get paid so that the RFL isn't as tarnished in the corridors of power. The trade creditors (RL fans, RL suppliers, local business folk) are less of a priority to the RFL. So they decide to hit BB2014 with the 6point penalty to force them to walk away. Which they did. Why wouldn't you? BB2014 thoughts - "So, if we pay off £500k of creditors, we get a 6 point penalty. RFL - yes. And if we pay off no creditors, we get a 6 point penalty, RFL yes."

So that is what I would like to know more about. Because the trade creditors were stuffed by that RFL process.
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