Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:28 pm  

daveyz999 wrote:

Been looking at this thread for a couple of days.

At first I thought that Gutterfax was just trolling, but after reading some of his arguments, I'm starting to feel that his reasoning includes some thought.

The timing of the new 'pledge' and the deadline the club has created for itself makes me a little nervous. The money that the 1000 fans raise over the next week will be around £280k, this being pretty close to the monthly wage bill.

I would like to think that every move the club makes is an exciting new venture allowing fans to engage with their club, but I'm getting a repetitive impression that each move the club makes is done with the intention of surviving for 1 more month.

I'm concerned that these 'oversights' by the accounts department and Ryan are becoming a little regular, and the fact that the club refused to make a statement regarding last months wages makes me think there was a little more to that story.

Wasn't there Sunday (looks like I tore my ACL on Sat), but can anyone confirm if the new pledge allows the fans to still use the 3 month payment option (and still be included into the 1000). If not, then I will be concerned as this would indicate the club is not interested in the amount of fans on the terraces next year, but the amount of cash that 1000 fans can contribute over a 7 day period.

I'm all for supporting the cause and that, but after last year (when fans we're lied to and told to throw their money into a magical pot) I find myself looking a little deeper into some decisions/announcements. Surely I'm not the only one a little concerned??

In May of this year the club made 2014 season tickets available on an advance payment plan. Right when they knew the money wasn't their to pay tax bills & wages.

Was it Khan who put money in to cover these, or was it more borrowing?

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:33 pm  

j.c wrote:

Where is Adeybull while all this is going on?

Dangling from a rope somewhere? I'd imagine even he is finding it hard to put up with what's going on.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:34 pm  

PS: and as for those plunkers that think a budget is reality, you try running a business, let alone a sports club business. The only thing that ensures a budget is reality is a SUGAR DADDY. eg Huddersfield..:

J.c: nearly said that myself. But wherever Sir Adey is, lets hope he rests in mental peace free from bullshitters.

Lets see what hard facts these stargazers have used for their astonishing predictions centuries before the events. Indeed, competition time, what is the collective noun for trolls that forecast events after they have happened?

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:36 pm  

martinwildbull wrote:

davyz999 yes as a Bulls fan i was concerned 3 months ago unlike the gutterpress, but look at what you are saying yourself, that the annual wages bill is £3360K. it just about hit that figure in the precap days when we had full stadiums and won the prizemoney for worldclub championships etc etc etc. Yes, be concerned, but dont get dragged down to the level of the gutter.

The £200k monthly wage bill seems realistic, and I think I saw this figure in the T&A when the first monthly wage payment was missed. At the time I remember people making the same argument re the salary cap, and I seem to remember a RAB poster (maybe Mat or Maislebugs) stating that this figure was for all the staff, not just playing roster. And that this monthly figure had reduced from about £350k per month, from the year before.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:45 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Jesus wept.....it makes no difference if he put 1 million, 10 million or 50 million into the club...the fact remains that money was needed to pay the wages from July and no other revenue streams have been announced since, but wages still need to be paid.

I get it...everything at Bradford is fine.

If you don't count things like the Bartercard deal or the sponsorship of the popular terrace.

Not saying things are rosy at Bradford, in fact I haven't said that at all during this whole thing, however YOU consistently ignore facts and figures that deviate away from your predictions of doom as well as make up figures and quotes then claim them as facts.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:46 pm  

martinwildbull wrote:

1. Where has the £200k wages figure come from? We clearly are well below the cap, and the admin costs are massively less than the previous regime, so please detail the 12x£200k = £2400k annual wage bill.
2. detail the £840k investment for me please, I seem to have missed this bit of news. The detail I want is who the £840k was paid to. So, for example, paying £225k to the RECEIVERS is not a cash injection into the CLUB.
4. Loans. when were they taken out by OK Bulls, how much, what were the repayment terms, and if OKB are in default, how long for and totals unpaid? and what have the bank done about it?
4. note that I am not being defensive, merely asking you to evidence your comments with reference to external sources .
5. Yes, you are dazzlingly observant about the gap between one season and another, I really could not have thought of that one. (cue much self -flagellation and -abuse for being so STUPID as to not have realised this fact) However, to anybody experienced in the financial management of a business, the signs were there several months, ago as was the knowledge that OKB was doing something about it.

So if you are so clever, why didnt you make your stupid futile comments three months ago, instead of reacting like a pbrain to the news of a dismissal of a winding up petition? Do you know that (thanks mainly to football clubs protecting the grossly overpaid footballers from all other creditors including HMRC) that sports clubs are jumped on by HMRC, hence the RFL (not superleague) interest in ensuring all clubs meet their commitments?

7. not your comment, gutterf*ck, someone else's, but I might as well deal with two onanissts at the same time. "Omar Khan is trying to make himself out to be some sort of hero". I have seen Ryan make the statement that OK is putting money in, not OK himself. I have seen Suttcliffe say that OK is not a sugar daddy, he has limited resources. Please show me where OK himself says that he is a hero. for the record, I do think he is a hero that needs the support of 10000 season ticket holders. and also for the record, I am not OK, I cannot cook a curry to save my life.

davyz999 yes as a Bulls fan i was concerned 3 months ago unlike the gutterpress, but look at what you are saying yourself, that the annual wages bill is £3360K. it just about hit that figure in the precap days when we had full stadiums and won the prizemoney for worldclub championships etc etc etc. Yes, be concerned, but dont get dragged down to the level of the gutter.

The £200k a month wages figure has often been used in Bradford T&A pieces on the Bulls.

Why even mention he's putting money into a business he solely owns? You need to ask those who deal with him about his ego.

Khan has funded Sutcliffe's political career for years. Of course he's going to big his pal up. Whitcut has worked with Khan for years, of course he's going to big his pal up.

Tax bills don't get filed & forgotten about. They get ignored until court action is imminent. You forget that the previous incarnation of the Bulls went under owing HMRC £500k. How is football to blame for this?

You need to wise up about what is going on behind the scenes at your club

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:52 pm  

Ryan Whitcut wrote:
I am very disappointed to see some areas of social media consistently targeting the club in bad press, with negative comments in what seems to be a destabilising campaign

I tell you what then Ryan, assuming of course you are reading this, when the club stops making itself a target for these comments then you may well get your wish. The honeymoon period is long over for the new regime and it is time to start putting things right off the pitch.

You were all happy to take the plaudits when OK and GS rode in on their horse like the saviours of the world. How then can you not take the "stick" when it is deserved? A bit two-faced is it not?

This season has been a PR disaster of epic proportions, culminating in yet another season without play off rugby, a half arsed attitude on the pitch and a desperate attempt to get season ticket sales when the goods on display are undeserving of coughing up for.

We have had the "one hour shop sale" disaster at the start of the season, the pathetic treatment of a club employee who was sacked by locksmith, the "missed payment oversight". Not to forget Jay Willey-gate. I have spent longer in a barbers shop than she spent at the club and I have been bald for years.

Oh, and social media? A bit like our owners' use of twitter to have a pop at an ex-player? (The same owner who allegedly terminated the employment of a club employee for mis-use of social media?)

What next?

The fans are commenting on issues that are arising from within the club. We are not making thing up, merely commenting on what has become knowledge in the public domain.

Take a look around. People are voting with their feet. There is only so much that people can take. Luckily for the club, we seem to have an extraordinary amount of gullible followers who will be spoon-fed by the "PR" and sign up for another season. These fans deserve better than what they get.

So if you are so precious that you cannot take the negative comments from people on social media then perhaps it is time to start getting up back to a place that we can all be proud of. A well run club that is not seemingly shooting itself in the foot at all times.

Also. Perhaps worth remembering that plenty of these people who you seem to wish to censor are people who are putting their money into the club. Essentially they are helping pay your wages. Hopefully you will get them on time.

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:58 pm  

martinwildbull wrote:

<snip> Yes, be concerned, but dont get dragged down to the level of the gutter.

All the financial facts and figures in the world make little difference to the reality that after 10 home games this season, there was not enough money in the bank to pay the salaries of the staff. You can argue that the wages aren't 200k or any other pedantic points, the facts are that 11 months into the brave new dawn, the club was skint and reliant on the benevolence of Mr K. He is to be applauded BTW for actually stumping up some cash and this points to him being in it for the longer run.
As for those that say Mr K and his guys need time to learn how to run a sports club...... I'd suggest that's the last thing they need to do. Looking at other clubs in similar positions (mine included BTW), they need to be run like a business first and foremost....and that means not projecting wildly inflated ST sales to start with!

BTW...Did they miss wages payments and tax bill payments because they were too busy reading "RL Clubs for Dummies"?

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:59 pm  

roofaldo2 wrote:

If you don't count things like the Bartercard deal or the sponsorship of the popular terrace.

Not saying things are rosy at Bradford, in fact I haven't said that at all during this whole thing, however YOU consistently ignore facts and figures that deviate away from your predictions of doom as well as make up figures and quotes then claim them as facts.

What is the Bartercard deal? How on earth is it going to bring in £100k+ a year when there are only 55,000 cardholders worldwide?

Season tickets for 2014 being offered on payment plans in May? Juts when money was in short supply to pay tax bills & wages?

Re: Winding up order ? : Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:00 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

In May of this year the club made 2014 season tickets available on an advance payment plan. Right when they knew the money wasn't their to pay tax bills & wages.

Was it Khan who put money in to cover these, or was it more borrowing?

this is getting a bit repetitive but here we go:

How many and how much for these 2014 season tickets? how much was the tax bill and how much were the wages?

Seeing as you know so much about OKs personal finances, why dont you tell us instead of all this teasieweasie? and per the previous post, what loan for how much over what period with what covenants?

facts please boffaboy. When you have got them correct, you will then have the same facts that I used at the time to deduce the issues you are retrotractively commenting on four months later. Just try to get ahead of the game, not four months behind it.

davyz etc yes if £200k is what you are saying now after initially stating £280K, that is more realistic. Having written press releases myself and paid Pr companies to do an even better job, I am totally cynical about anything in the press (let alone bloggs) not substantiated by independent facts - as you may have guessed. so the £200k may actually be inflated with other things sort of wage related, just to show what a big amount can be paid off in one go. Which, all wages or not, is a big amount.