Re: Olly Wilson : Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:57 pm  

We do have a very good academy. Our academy finished above yours last season and made the play offs.

Watch out for Jake Wardle on sky tomorrow against Cas. He would be a first team regular now if it wasn't for a year of bad injuries.

We have Louis and Innes Senior who both played for England against the Aussies in December and have both played SL at 18. Darnell Mcitosh and Kruise Leeming are turning into very good players. Matty English will be a future England prop.

Then the likes of Jermaine McGilvarry, Leroy Cudjoe and Michael Lawrence.

We have had other academy players playing this year too for the first team in Sam Hewitt and Ollie Russell.

Granted, we have made a lot of signings off you. O Brien, Mellor, Roberts, Butterworth and Wilson. Ferguson Gaskell and Clough didn't come through your academy. In fact, Ferguson played for us before you.

I do find the Butterworth signing strange as I cant see him playing for us at all.

I thought the Clough signing was strange at first but he was excellent last season. Gaskell has been excellent this season.

Fergie is injury prone.

The Colton Roche signing was strange as he is no where near SL quality and never will be. Has a great attitude and work rate though.

O Brien and Mellor are proving to be good SL players with room for improvement.

Roberts was class 2 years ago but was dire last season. Hes done ok this season but still not hit the level he was at 2 years ago.

Most young players probably choose us because its the closest SL club to where they live, most of them in the Halifax area and have players around them they have played with already.

Re: Olly Wilson : Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:58 pm  

A lot of clubs are n the area are fighting for Halifax based juniors. It's a hot bed of RL Talent.

Re: Olly Wilson : Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:26 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Until SL clubs start proper reserve grades I’d advise our young players to stick with us until they get an offer from a SL team who fully intends to give them a proper shot at first grade.

I think dual registration or short loan deals are totally the wrong way to develop young players. I’m sure James Bentley has done ok financially out of his move but I bet he’s not on big money and I wonder if he would make the same move if given another choice?

Interestingly Bentley is out of contract at the end of this season. Would you have him back if he became available? I would.

I'd have him back in a heartbeat. I get the reason for his leaving, when a team like Saints come knocking for you, you answer. But he's not looked to have had the opportunities to push on with his development - you can't improve if you're not playing - and he's found himself back playing in the Championship.

Re: Olly Wilson : Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:03 pm  

It will be interesting to see whether St Helens offer another deal to Bentley

They are going to need to take a view shortly on whether he is a project worth persisting with, or whether he's not quite going to make the grade.

I don't see him coming back to us though, I think a lower SL club would be in for him.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Olly Wilson : Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:52 am  

When a SL side swoops for a player from a part-time team, on one hand he will benefit from training in a full-time environment but unless he’s already very gifted, he won’t get any game-time and will invariably be loaned out back to the same tier of clubs he’s just come from. But when you are taking lads from other full-time / hybrid championship clubs, it seems to me the pragmatic thing to do might be to sign him and loan him straight back. In the Bentley case Bradford would have gained from keeping a talented lad for a bit, Saints would have gained from knowing he’s developing in a strong (but not elite) environment, and playing regularly.

I just don’t like the concept of snapping up decent prospects without having a vision of what to do with them next. I don’t know if I’m making too much of it, but we have a duty of care to our young lads, and loaning people out left right and centre can be demoralising as we have seen with Lilley. There must be a better way to help these young lads, not all of which will have the steadfast self-belief to thrive whilst being passed around.

Re: Olly Wilson : Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:03 am  

Pumpetypump wrote:

When a SL side swoops for a player from a part-time team, on one hand he will benefit from training in a full-time environment but unless he’s already very gifted, he won’t get any game-time and will invariably be loaned out back to the same tier of clubs he’s just come from. But when you are taking lads from other full-time / hybrid championship clubs, it seems to me the pragmatic thing to do might be to sign him and loan him straight back. In the Bentley case Bradford would have gained from keeping a talented lad for a bit, Saints would have gained from knowing he’s developing in a strong (but not elite) environment, and playing regularly.

I just don’t like the concept of snapping up decent prospects without having a vision of what to do with them next. I don’t know if I’m making too much of it, but we have a duty of care to our young lads, and loaning people out left right and centre can be demoralising as we have seen with Lilley. There must be a better way to help these young lads, not all of which will have the steadfast self-belief to thrive whilst being passed around.

Mellor is now playing regular SL and is turning into a very good player.

O Brien I suppose had played SL before and although was young when we got him, he was already a decent player. Was one of the better hookers in the comp last season.

Joe Wardle has turned into a very good SL player.

Time will tell on Butterworth, Wilson & Bentley. I think Bentley lacks size at SL level.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Olly Wilson : Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:23 am  

GiantJake1988 wrote:

Mellor is now playing regular SL and is turning into a very good player.

O Brien I suppose had played SL before and although was young when we got him, he was already a decent player. Was one of the better hookers in the comp last season.

Joe Wardle has turned into a very good SL player.

Time will tell on Butterworth, Wilson & Bentley. I think Bentley lacks size at SL level.

I should say, that my post didn't have Huddersfield in mind. You've got a decent track record of adapting Bradford players into 1st team players which, if players have to leave, is exactly what I want to happen.

Re: Olly Wilson : Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:01 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

When a SL side swoops for a player from a part-time team, on one hand he will benefit from training in a full-time environment but unless he’s already very gifted, he won’t get any game-time and will invariably be loaned out back to the same tier of clubs he’s just come from. But when you are taking lads from other full-time / hybrid championship clubs, it seems to me the pragmatic thing to do might be to sign him and loan him straight back. In the Bentley case Bradford would have gained from keeping a talented lad for a bit, Saints would have gained from knowing he’s developing in a strong (but not elite) environment, and playing regularly.

I just don’t like the concept of snapping up decent prospects without having a vision of what to do with them next. I don’t know if I’m making too much of it, but we have a duty of care to our young lads, and loaning people out left right and centre can be demoralising as we have seen with Lilley. There must be a better way to help these young lads, not all of which will have the steadfast self-belief to thrive whilst being passed around.

I agree with what you say, but I think some responsibility needs to lie with James himself and also his agent. I'm sure that Saints weren't the only side in for him when he moved, and something James should have thought long and hard about before signing anything would be his prospects of actually seeing any game time at his new club.
Without being disrespectful, he could have signed for several of the 'lesser' SL clubs and I'm fairly confident he'd have broken through into the first team by now. As it is he went for the biggest club who were interested and the result is that - barring a few brief cameos at the end of last season - James is no closer to the 17 now than he was when he first moved there.

Re: Olly Wilson : Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:27 pm  

At 5'9 James Bentley is going to struggle in the back row in the SL. Potentially he's a hooker but with Roby in front of him he's got an awful lot to do.

I hate the way that they collect all the promising you g players with no intention of playing them.

Look at Bachelor for another example.

Re: Olly Wilson : Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:27 pm  

Did Saints have a reserve side when he went? I know they don't now. That may have been an option when he signed.