Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:04 am  

There comes a time when survival and pragmatism trumps everything else.

I have this horrible vision of people standing around in the wreckage of the club saying - "well at least we kept confidential everything that was commercially sensitive"...

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:13 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

How is the story stacking up? Correct me if I'm wrong, RBS have taken away £1million overdraft with immediate effect for no reason? The reason they have given and reiterated by Ryan Duckett is actually bogus. The consequences of this action will almost certainly mean administration and further losses for RBS? I've seen HMRC and banks behave extremely aggressively but I don't believe that story. Even if there is no charge on the lease there must have been reference to the lease in written exchanges, otherwise what is the overdraft secured against? The Bulls themselves say they didn't expect the RFL to take all the money from the sale so I'm guessing that they promised a significant chunk to RBS to reduce the overdraft. When it didn't arrive, they thought we're being had over.

Again, what we have is Ryan Duckett explaining one thing in public whilst in the background the story is finessed and put out through non-public channels. It's extremely irritating and causing a massive loss of trust.

RBS have not taken away a £1m overdraft. The facility was nowhere anywhere near that. I have not personally beenn told the number, but I know a man who has. The Bulls asked for a small increase (again I know a man who knows how much), which seemingly triggered a credit review. The outcome was as stated.

I expect that the Bulls had received the stadium settlement from the RFL, meaning they had received funds that RBS saw they could effectively "grab" as a one-off opportunity to get out of their exposure. I have seen it happen any number of times before with banks - they dare not foreclose because they would take a hit, but the minute the customer receives a big receipt they immediately reduce the facility and threrby theri exposure. I suspect (although I do not know) that that is what happened in this case.

I have already explained why, IMO, the lease itself was of little value to a secured lender in the event of insolvency. I stand by that, and await anyone putting up a better counter-argument. The bank has a long-standing charge on all the assets - like the Coral Stand, the debtors, the fixtures and fittings, and so on as well as any intangibles that might have value that would survive in an insolvency.

The requirement to repay the loan early clearly put a huge dent in the cash flow. I suspect this is what has led to the tax liabilities not being paid (again, I am surmising albeit with some substance) and I suspect that the existence of the unpaid tax liabilities may then have given the bank more of a reason/excuse to seemingly take the opportunity to cut and run when they did. If that is the case, the domino effect started with having to repay the loan earlier (as I understand it, we are tyalking MUCH earlier) than expected, I'd suggest? Why that came about, how much it flew in the face of any previous assurances, and whether it could have been foreseen, is perhaps the most significant unanswered question of all IMO.

Why don't you ring Ryan (or even Hood) and ask him if he can put you a bit more in the picture, and form your own views? I did.

His number was on the flyer, and I know you are not the sort of person (as some others are) who would refrain from seeking the facts in case they were at variance with what you have convinced yourself must be the case. At least then, you could form your own view about how truthful the overall story is, rather than listening to the comments of others?

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:19 am  

Highlander wrote:

There comes a time when survival and pragmatism trumps everything else.

I have this horrible vision of people standing around in the wreckage of the club saying - "well at least we kept confidential everything that was commercially sensitive"...

..standing next to those saying "...there was no way I was going to pay anything while that lying toerag Hood was in charge, and you can see where his mismanagement got us..."

There will be commercially sensitive matters, the disclosure of which could damage the prospects of securing a successful outcome. I've an inkling of one or two such.

Equally, the club should surely be unequivocally aware by now that there is a significant body of opinion that believes they have been misled and the facts as presented do not stack up. I really really hope theyb take this on board bloody quickly and seek to allay those concerns. Like NOW. And, in particular, I am extremely disappointed that Hood seems to have left all this to Ryan - it is HIS explanations that people want to hear, and if a mea culpa is indeed required then it is from HIM they want to hear it!

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:34 am  

Adeybull wrote:

..standing next to those saying "...there was no way I was going to pay anything while that lying toerag Hood was in charge, and you can see where his mismanagement got us..."

There will be commercially sensitive matters, the disclosure of which could damage the prospects of securing a successful outcome. I've an inkling of one or two such.

Equally, the club should surely be unequivocally aware by now that there is a significant body of opinion that believes they have been misled and the facts as presented do not stack up. I really really hope theyb take this on board bloody quickly and seek to allay those concerns. Like NOW. And, in particular, I am extremely disappointed that Hood seems to have left all this to Ryan - it is HIS explanations that people want to hear, and if a mea culpa is indeed required then it is from HIM they want to hear it!

I would like a simple time line of events. from the club, not peiced together by several sources.

how did we get in to debt with the RFL. what, other than the stadium sale, was in place to extract themselves from the mire? how much tax is owed? how quickly do RBS enforce a reduced overdraft facility?
how much has hood and other board members put in to the coffers in the last year?

all of this would be available to any person interested in buying into the club during the due dilligence period of their offer, and alkthough it might scare some suppliers / service providers, it might just prove refreshingly honest and not get a negative response!

if i get something resembling frank answers about this, including Hood stating that he misjudged the whole of the situation, and inadvertantly misled the fans, then he gets my support in terms of a pledge. he appears to be a second rate salesman / politician, making his underlings take the flack. he is entitled to do this, but if he doesnt get that many of us dont trust him, then he is even more daft than i thought.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:45 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Equally, the club should surely be unequivocally aware by now that there is a significant body of opinion that believes they have been misled and the facts as presented do not stack up. I really really hope theyb take this on board bloody quickly and seek to allay those concerns. Like NOW. And, in particular, I am extremely disappointed that Hood seems to have left all this to Ryan - it is HIS explanations that people want to hear, and if a mea culpa is indeed required then it is from HIM they want to hear it!

It is my fervent wish that from this point the club will realise how much more support they will receive from fans if they are as transparent as possible, even if that means publishing the minutes. Redacted if necessary for concerns of commercial sensitivity, but truthful, honest and open.

It might be a pipe dream, but they cannot now claim they do not owe us the whole truth at each and every point while they remain in charge.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:46 am  

isaac1 wrote:

I would like a simple time line of events. from the club, not peiced together by several sources.

how did we get in to debt with the RFL. what, other than the stadium sale, was in place to extract themselves from the mire? how much tax is owed? how quickly do RBS enforce a reduced overdraft facility?
how much has hood and other board members put in to the coffers in the last year?

all of this would be available to any person interested in buying into the club during the due dilligence period of their offer, and alkthough it might scare some suppliers / service providers, it might just prove refreshingly honest and not get a negative response!

if i get something resembling frank answers about this, including Hood stating that he misjudged the whole of the situation, and inadvertantly misled the fans, then he gets my support in terms of a pledge. he appears to be a second rate salesman / politician, making his underlings take the flack. he is entitled to do this, but if he doesnt get that many of us dont trust him, then he is even more daft than i thought.

Nothing wrong with any of what you ask for there. That is precisely what I want too. I suspect some bits may be commercially sensitive, but IMO most could be put in the public domain. And, if the club is indeed telling it as it is, I believe would defuse nearly all of the reservations a lot of people have.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:06 am  

Another one here who is not very happy about pledging until there is a bit more transparency with the whole situation. I am however coming home from visiting family down south a day early to come to the Leeds game. Will be paying on the door to show some support, albeit a few quid for now.

I really would like to help out more but my level of trust is not high enough at the moment, which is sad.

I have just shelled out the £45 on a home shirt though!

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:09 am  

Peter? Are you there?

Listen to your Club's fans Peter!!!

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:13 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Peter? Are you there?

Listen to your fans Peter!!!

AMEN

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:16 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Peter? Are you there?

Listen to the fans of the club you're chairman of Peter!!!

Edited for accuracy.