Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:08 am  

Be nice if Koucash bailed on Salford because I could think of a potential SL club in West Yorkshire in desperate need of money.

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:11 am  

Bullseye wrote:

There maybe little chance of it happening but to quote Kevin Keegan "I WOULD LOVE IT" if a SL side got relegated.

Indeed, I'd be interested to know how prepared any of the 3 at risk SL clubs are for a potential drop into the championship. Salford and Hudds are both supported to a larger extent than some clubs on the funds of one man and both struggle to get the attendances up, 2100 and 3600 respectively for their 1st home games in the mid 8's (given Hudds have made some progress in that but the people of Hudds don't seem to turn out in the numbers the quality of that side deserved in recent seasons imho). To survive the drop and quickly regroup, as we know, is tough, would koucash have the stomach for that if hes already talking about leaving? probably not and Im not sure where that would leave salford. Hudds would probably carry on being well funded and would survive the shock but the attendance would take another hit putting the development of the club back. Hull KR I think would rally pretty quickly providing the impressive fan base continue their support in numbers, but it would be a massive shock to any of the clubs who do fall through the trap door.

I think it highlights the fragility of parts of our game that its far from certain what could happen to clubs and peoples livelihoods when they potentially swap divisions. And wakey might be playing at Dewsbury from next year, which if they don't have planned return to the city could really harm their medium to long term future. I can easily see Leigh, Toronto and Toulouse replacing some of these teams (as well as us) in the next few years at the top table, and (stating the obvious) we really need to get our house in order and challenge next year before we get left too far behind and could be overtaken in the SL queue by well financed clubs like Toronto and Toulouse.

Of course, the RFL could be tempted to build new goalposts at any given moment to get the make up of SL they want, so who knows whats going to happen.

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:39 am  

Duckman wrote:

...I can easily see Leigh, Toronto and Toulouse replacing some of these teams (as well as us) in the next few years at the top table, ...
...
Of course, the RFL could be tempted to build new goalposts at any given moment to get the make up of SL they want, so who knows whats going to happen.

At the risk of being accused of getting back on my very old hobby horse - WTF make-up of SL *DO* the RFL want, because they've never said, and I really and honestly don't have a fscking clue.

To me, they are and have always been just winging it, from madcap idea to madcap idea, it's more like the Mr. fsckin' Micawber league.

But one thing surely ANYONE can plainly see is replacing pretty much ANY of the top teams with Toronto and Toulouse is well on the road to killing the league off, as there you would be left (for now, before Beirut, Port Stanley and Panama join) with a mere 9 (yes NINE) UK clubs and it shouldn't (and indeed doesn't) take some guy on a forum to point out the economic suicide consequences of that sort of league. We have dangerously few top level teams even now - to be left with a mere sprinkling, all still concentrated around a few mile stretch, is heading for irrelevance and will ultimately sideline the game altogether.

Even European soccer can't fund an international league, they rely for their bread and butter on bigging up stronger and stronger domestic leagues. Do you see any Toulouses or Torontos in the PL (or indeed in ANY of the divisions of the football pyramid? I wonder why not, if its such a good idea?

So to shorten my rhetorical question - WHAT IS the plan, if there is one? I mean, having 2 French teams (and now 1 Canadian) in our comps surely can't be the AIM, so what is the POINT? As in, what are we trying to achieve? People say Catalans have been a success story, and in many ways they have, but the same question applies, what is the point, where is that going? If Catalans are meant to be a permanent fixture in English RL, then what is the plan for the French leagues? Surely the only sensible point of Catalans and Toulouse would be the eventual aim of them returning, Celtic & Rangers like, to a stronger French league built on their foundations?

But if that isn't the plan, then we seem to be heading for some weird, but surely doomed, short-term international league, paid for out of the pockets of outsiders, which can't last, and will kill off the English clubs that are replaced, as it has all but killed off Bradford. It's not the principle of involvement of overseas teams in some ways in some comps that I object to, it's the total and risible lack of any sort of a plan, and the damage this short-termist seat-of-the-pants way of running a competition is doing and will do to the game in this country.

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:46 am  

Duckman wrote:

Indeed, I'd be interested to know how prepared any of the 3 at risk SL clubs are for a potential drop into the championship. Salford and Hudds are both supported to a larger extent than some clubs on the funds of one man and both struggle to get the attendances up, 2100 and 3600 respectively for their 1st home games in the mid 8's (given Hudds have made some progress in that but the people of Hudds don't seem to turn out in the numbers the quality of that side deserved in recent seasons imho). To survive the drop and quickly regroup, as we know, is tough, would koucash have the stomach for that if hes already talking about leaving? probably not and Im not sure where that would leave salford. Hudds would probably carry on being well funded and would survive the shock but the attendance would take another hit putting the development of the club back. Hull KR I think would rally pretty quickly providing the impressive fan base continue their support in numbers, but it would be a massive shock to any of the clubs who do fall through the trap door.

I think it highlights the fragility of parts of our game that its far from certain what could happen to clubs and peoples livelihoods when they potentially swap divisions. And wakey might be playing at Dewsbury from next year, which if they don't have planned return to the city could really harm their medium to long term future. I can easily see Leigh, Toronto and Toulouse replacing some of these teams (as well as us) in the next few years at the top table, and (stating the obvious) we really need to get our house in order and challenge next year before we get left too far behind and could be overtaken in the SL queue by well financed clubs like Toronto and Toulouse.

Of course, the RFL could be tempted to build new goalposts at any given moment to get the make up of SL they want, so who knows whats going to happen.

Agree with nearly all of that. If Toulouse & Toronto do end up in SL, fair play. I don't get the mindset of "lets support the heartlands clubs"" If Toronto and Toulose have money to spend and are more successful, fair play. The attendance in SL have been utterly pathetic.

Salford getting below 2k (and not on just one occasion) Wakey getting 3.5k this week. This is our premier competition.

If Salford go down i think Koukash will walk. Salford's attendance could drop to 3 figures. I think Salford should be OK though. Big game for them this week though.

Hudds i think Davy will support the shortfall in central funding and an even further drop in attendances.

KR i'm not so sure. They've got the best fan base and i'm sure they'll average around 5k. But will Hudgell continue to fund the funding gap? He's already having to do it with SL funding and SL attendances. You'd be looking at a huge difference if they were to go down.

Be interesting on what would happen to a lot of our players if KR or Hudds went down.

[Bulliac]

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:28 am  

What do the RFL want?

Well, there's a can of worms and no mistake. For my money what they want [really really want] is a league made up of clubs from big cities. So the ideal would maybe be something like, New York, London, Athens, Dublin, Amsterdam, Sydney, Berlin, Paris and a whole raft of others of a similar ilk.

That's obviously a non starter though, and I'd guess [if asked] even the RFL realise that it really ain't gonna work out like that...well, not any time soon anyway.

So I think they'd most likely plump for the next best thing which would be as many Torontos as wish to join their club, plus any British or European cities who may be interested and failing that, anyone, anywhere with a large splodge of wonga to fritter away on nothing in particular. Basically, they'd love to lose the overgrown villages which clutter up the current 'offer' but which will never, ever attract the sort of crowds commensurate with a top rating, international sporting organisation's objectives, or even the ambitions of a bunch of big time Charlies.

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:54 am  

Surely a job for "ace" media reporter Mick Gledhill with his new BCB prog to get someone from Sod Hall to come on and outline and perhaps crayon in the RFL's ongoing vision for Rugby League!

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:10 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

At the risk of being accused of getting back on my very old hobby horse - WTF make-up of SL *DO* the RFL want, because they've never said, and I really and honestly don't have a fscking clue.

To me, they are and have always been just winging it, from madcap idea to madcap idea,

So to shorten my rhetorical question - WHAT IS the plan, if there is one?

That's it, they play the cards presented at one given time but there clearly isnt any great strategic plan. Are they even going to review the current new structure to see if it has succeeded and release the findings or are we just going with it and see what happens now?

To bring in teams like Toronto and Toulouse, and to a lesser extent new moneyed owners like at Leigh into SL then a revised version of the licensing system would be the best way forward, possibly along a conference league system and fixture list that doesn't require all teams to play all teams same as per the NFL. Then new teams can be integrated who show financial capability without kicking out teams which could still offer something. The NFL conference league structure is not bound by a set number of teams.

But the licensing we had was so badly handled that its lost all credibility, eg our licence should have been removed rather than dodgy secret loans and "buying" our iconic ground.

Going forward I have no idea what might be for the best for the future of RL in this country, but more worryingly, Im certain the RFL don't know what is the best way forward either.

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:19 am  

Bull Mania wrote:

Agree with nearly all of that. If Toulouse & Toronto do end up in SL, fair play. I don't get the mindset of "lets support the heartlands clubs"" If Toronto and Toulose have money to spend and are more successful, fair play. The attendance in SL have been utterly pathetic.

Oh I agree, and the heartland clubs, including us, need to improve themselves to compete, but if the new clubs are based solely on the whims and fortunes of 1 or 2 people, what happens when the few people get bored or broke and leave? How sustainable is such a multi country league system if its not flourishing (or even surviving at a pro level) in some of the communities that supported the game for generations?

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:31 pm  

Well Paris,London,Barcelona etc was surely what SL was meant to be? So if it hasn't worked in last 20 years cannot see it working now. Have to agree with all the comments above but no doubt the fat controller has his own agenda

Re: Leigh : Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:52 pm  

I thought that a long term objective of the current system was to narrow the gap between SL and Championship, and they put their money where their mouth was, but until just now not would not let the Championship club owners, which corrected the major flaw. So has competition overall improved in the Championship? More full time clubs, and us 5th are a bit of an indicator of improvement. Getting more competitive clubs in such as Toronto will improve that. and a few years ago there was one French SL side, if Toulouse got promoted that would be two French clubs with big fan bases. Ideally the gap continues to narrow to the point that promotion and relegation is justified. If Leigh get automatic promotion by beating all other Championship sides and two SL sides, then to me the system works, by filtering out only those ready to compete in SL, and justify receiving a bunch more money to improve their side even further.