Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:05 pm  

isaac1 wrote:

From the RFL, I think

Thats the key to me. why was cash flow so bad 12-18 months ago that we effectively started this spiral?

was it about the same time as the first season ticket pledge?

seems like weve been skating on pretty thin ice for longer than the club told us. As a frequent visitor, that absolutely vindicates the view that adey has had for years, that althouogh we might not have huge ammounts of debt, we do have a shortage of cash flow streams with no reserves of cash

I keep thinking of that as being a lease rather than a loan.

I still find it odd as to why we're having to pay it early. Normally when you enter into a loan or lease the repayment dates are fairly clear.

Are they saying that when it was converted from a loan into a lease the dates of rental payments became more frequent than the old loan repayments?

I think we were protected from the cash flow problems to some extent because of the £3m we received when we moved back to Odsal in 2003.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:14 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

I'm getting confused. Which loan is that?

The £700k (seemingly) loan that the club somehow neglected to mention until this week. That did not show up in the 2010 accounts for some strange reason (I suspect because it was in "accruals and income in advance" as an advance of future income from Sky/RFL?). That was never mentioned by Hood at the forum, when, in response to my SPECIFIC question reagarding what the lease sale proceeds would be used for, he gave a list of various applications but somehow forgot to mention what the biggest item would be.

That loan.

The loan, knowledge of the existence of which would doubtless have confirmed what some of us had been very concerned about for a long time - that the club's financial position was far worse than was (understandably) being publically acknowledged.

And knowledge of which would have prevented me from making such a fool of myself for pedalling the club's "its all OK now" line in January.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:18 pm  

It (the loan from the RFL) was also a question that I emailed to Stuart before the Fans Forum in Sept 2011 (as I'd heard about this from someone inside Redhall) that prompted a phone call from Ryan. It was confirmed that there had been a "small loan" to get them through and that the sale of Lynchy was going to ease that burden.

Spin, Spin, Spin
Lie after Lie after Lie

Whichever way you look at it, this Management Team have been at best non-communicative or at worst telling lies to cover lies and this is why, despite my love of the Club, I am wrestling with a pledge.

We are being run by people who are not fit to run the club. End of

[Bullseye]

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:42 pm  

It's these sort of half truths that make people reluctant to get fully behind the club. If they'd been fully open then they'd have more backing.

It's a shame because fans want to believe and want to think that those running the club are being straight. When it comes out that they were being economical with the actualite you wonder why you bother.

I pledged today and bought some merchandise. I do feel like it's all going to be wasted but I so hope I'm wrong.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:59 pm  

We need a statement from the club, other than a close of business update on how much has been pledged.

we also need a statement from the RFL regarding possible scenarios.

When we get these, we can better assess whether the pledge will work long term or not.

So far, the RFL have told people to back the scheme. my feeling is that they have simply done this to back the club, just like they did on Janury 24th when taking the lease of Odsal. They have done us a massive service and have done as mucn, if not more than we should expect from a governing body. Then again, there's plenty of egg on their face selling SL as a brand if one of the 3 most successful clubs of the SL era goes under, when SL was meant to end this sort of boom and bust running of clubs!

We need them to spell out to us what could happen if we go into admin, or default on wages etc...

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:03 pm  

Peter? Just checking again...are you there?

Listen to your Club's fans Peter!!!

[Bulliac]

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:08 pm  

I never knew the RFL 'did' loans.

I'm assuming, rightly or wrongly, that the 'loans' are in place of payments that should have been made by the club to the governing body; we couldn't pay so they 'loaned' us the money. As mentioned above, if that was the case I would have thought, again as already mentioned, that quite specific dates would have been specified for payments. The only reason I can think of for not mentioning this loan might possibly have been if the RFL didn't wish not to make it public, so maybe (I'm clutching at straws, I admit) there was some confidentiality clause attached?

That though wouldn't explain why it was called in early, or even if it is legally possible to insist on payment(s) being made before the due date.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:12 pm  

I need to have confirmation that if the club gets to season ticket time again (6/12) - they will be relatively safe, relatively debt-free and the medium term business plan will allow us to live within our means.

And I would prefer to know what is different about next season in terms of increased income or decreased outgoings.

I can see that some pieces are in place for next season. The academy facilities. The young players who (at the moment) want to stay & play for the club.

The millstone of Odsal maintenance seems to have been handed on to the RFL. Although we now have to pay a commercial rent.

Some liabilities have been settled (good). leaving us cash-poor at the moment(bad).

If I donate now to get us to next season - will that be good enough or delaying the inevitable?

[Bullseye]

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:16 pm  

Highlander wrote:

If I donate now to get us to next season - will that be good enough or delaying the inevitable?

That's the £1m question!

Btw, do the RFL pay for the stadium upkeep? I thought it was still down to the club. That used to be a reason given at forums as to why we were skint until the last forum where it was said it was never a problem.

I find it hard to keep up.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:20 pm  

I don't actually know about maintenance. I just assumed we would either be paying rent, or maintenance , but not both. Although we do still own the Coral stand I think.