Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:50 am  

Is Jake and Wakefield looking for sympathy? They enjoyed our demise and gloated on a lot of issues we had last season. all I can think of is the words of a song "Down Down ... Deeper and Down"

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:25 am  

miketaurus wrote:

Is Jake and Wakefield looking for sympathy? They enjoyed our demise and gloated on a lot of issues we had last season. all I can think of is the words of a song "Down Down ... Deeper and Down"

That is 100% correct and I totally agree

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:18 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:

....
Bulls have to get to rd 23 with something akin to Lowes first team squad ready to step up two gears on what we've seen so far - ??????? How likely is this on the evidence so far and the squad at his disposal?

Nah. Bulls need to at a minimum keep on keeping on finding ways to win each game, on the day. No more than that is needed. And even Leigh's fans privately know that our scratch squad on its debut still really should have beaten them, and Leigh even then were a better team than Wakey are now.

In the ordinary way you would expect that as the season progresses, we will gradually improve as Lowes finds his best combinations and as people get fit and slowly get used to each other. But we don't need to crack any pots, either now or in the future. We just need to find ways do whatever is required on the day, however down and dirty and unattractive, to win certain key knockout-style games. That's all we need and all I want from this season. I'm not after total football.

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:45 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Nah. Bulls need to at a minimum keep on keeping on finding ways to win each game, on the day. No more than that is needed. And even Leigh's fans privately know that our scratch squad on its debut still really should have beaten them, and Leigh even then were a better team than Wakey are now.

In the ordinary way you would expect that as the season progresses, we will gradually improve as Lowes finds his best combinations and as people get fit and slowly get used to each other. But we don't need to crack any pots, either now or in the future. We just need to find ways do whatever is required on the day, however down and dirty and unattractive, to win certain key knockout-style games. That's all we need and all I want from this season. I'm not after total football.

I can't make my mind up whether I agree or disagree with this. Clearly, winning games is the most important thing that you can do. Given the fixtures, I thought that winning against Fax on Friday, then backing up to win away at Dewsbury on Monday is impressive regardless of winning margins.

However... At what stage would you expect/want to have found best combinations, team has gelled etc...? You might not want total football, but you have a better chance of beating SL opposition if you're playing well than you would if you're just getting by on having greater fitness than opposition. I don't really buy these theories about timing your form to peak during the play offs. Yes, you want players fit and fresh during the play offs, but can't really switch form on and off at will.

[Bullseye]

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:56 pm  

Maybe you can’t turn it on “at will” but I think subconsciously players will dig deeper in games that seem to “matter”. Obviously the longer this group of players have to gel the better they will be too.
I’m happy for us to pick up the wins and show glimpses of what we’re capable of when we play to our potential at the moment. I’d expect us to show a bit more as we go on with us putting in some more consistent performances.

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:29 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Nah. Bulls need to at a minimum keep on keeping on finding ways to win each game, on the day. No more than that is needed. And even Leigh's fans privately know that our scratch squad on its debut still really should have beaten them, and Leigh even then were a better team than Wakey are now.

In the ordinary way you would expect that as the season progresses, we will gradually improve as Lowes finds his best combinations and as people get fit and slowly get used to each other. But we don't need to crack any pots, either now or in the future. We just need to find ways do whatever is required on the day, however down and dirty and unattractive, to win certain key knockout-style games. That's all we need and all I want from this season. I'm not after total football.

But it's the dirty and unattractive stuff we don't look very good at. The respective packs of Fax, Batley, Dewsbury and Leigh dominated our front six for a significant period in those games.

And Leigh won't be playing Wakey 'now'. They could be playing them with Paea and Anderson fully fit which would radically alter their chances against Leigh and us for that matter.

We've seen very little from Fleming and less from Davies. Addy and Ferguson have been no where near their best form so there's massive improvement in us but I can't agree we don't need to step up in the future if we want to go up. I'm reasonably confident this is the plan as I don't think a side can play 30 games at their best either.

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:31 pm  

I think that history has shown that timing things to perfection can pay big dividends and I don't doubt that Jimmy has been influenced by this approach. It's just possible that the players that haven't played yet due to injury will improve us further. I haven't seen enough yet to pick my starting 13 for a match in the super eights .....It changes almost weekly but I haven't totally discounted anyone yet.
I think Hull K R arrive at exactly the right time and will add massively to our store of knowledge ....... testing ourselves against what looks like a top 6 team is a big deal ....winning would be the icing on the cake but not crucial. The Yorkshire derbies are perfect for a bit of intensity and each one provides a test. We don't really achieve much more by blowing teams away but there looks to be plenty of potential for improvement and greater fluidity. I think London and Sheffield will both be interesting tests and I don't see there being any blow outs there........ just keep grinding out results and not taking risks with injuries or rehab and we arrive at the start line in fine fettle.

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:38 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Maybe you can’t turn it on “at will” but I think subconsciously players will dig deeper in games that seem to “matter”. Obviously the longer this group of players have to gel the better they will be too.
I’m happy for us to pick up the wins and show glimpses of what we’re capable of when we play to our potential at the moment. I’d expect us to show a bit more as we go on with us putting in some more consistent performances.

Yeah, and whereas some were saying that the higher intensity of SL would be a massive advantage for the SL sides going into the middle 8's, Webster is already seeing it as a disadvantage with a small squad. To a certain extent he is in a cleft stick. Playing with depleted resources increases the minutes your best fit players spend on the pitch, increasing the stress and chances they'll be injured as well. Poor performances see crowds drop (3k against Cats) thereby hindering any chance of signing loan players. For us the next dozen rounds are a good thing it's simply more chance to see his best players get smashed.

I agree with 8ull on the arrival of HKR as well. Great tie for us.

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:40 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Maybe you can’t turn it on “at will” but I think subconsciously players will dig deeper in games that seem to “matter”. Obviously the longer this group of players have to gel the better they will be too.
I’m happy for us to pick up the wins and show glimpses of what we’re capable of when we play to our potential at the moment. I’d expect us to show a bit more as we go on with us putting in some more consistent performances.

I think you can actually can, those of us that have played rugby know, that when teams that are good, we all know it can be turned on. Yes it could well be subconscious.

Lets see, London and HKR coming up. I am expecting London to be a tough test.

Re: Middle 8's : Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:51 pm  

London we have to beat, KR we don't. So it will be very interesting to see Jimmy's approach to that game. I reckon it is way too early to use it as some kind of playoffs 'tester' or dry run, so I'm thinking it depends on whether Jimmy thinks there is any realistic chance of us winning it. Surely privately there is no way he thinks that, and so I would expect to see more a try-out squad, with some players who would have incentive to play for a starting spot, and I would not expect to see a first choice team - if he even has one at this point.

What I would enjoy is a match comparable to that one a few years back when we sent the juniors and schoolboys to play at the mighty Wigan - and nearly caused an upset. But don't forget that, unlike us, KR can entertain realistic ambitions to get to Wembley, so they will definitely be well up for it, it's a much more important game for them and I expect them to field a strong team.