Re: York : Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:44 am  

In terms of our halfbacks I've said it before. Chisolm and Keyes don't play well together, there's a marked difference in how we organise when either is off the field.

Both good players in their own rights but they don't seem to have gelled at all. Just my two penneth.

Re: York : Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:54 am  

The slow starts are a concern as has been noticed, but is anyone else also concerned about our lack of “big game mentality”? In recent years we seem to have gone to pot in almost every single game that is labelled of some importance. OK, we beat York at the start of the year when both sides were more ring rusty, but when it’s come down to the business end of the season and promotion is practically on a plate, it’s like the players didn’t seem aware of the stakes until half time. It seems this has been a pattern in a few end of year games. We were chasing the game in huge end of the season clashes against Leigh at home in 2015, (almost a carbon copy of yesterday’s game except with the conversion going the wrong way), the MPG vs Wakefield and the less said about Fev in 2016 the better. And no, I don’t count the Championship Shield

The only major game I can remember us winning in the past few years that meant something was Leigh away to get to the Million Pound Game. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t an “the end is nigh” type post, but it is a concern given that after yesterday, we are slightly less likely to go up automatically. If we have to do it via the playoffs, then that’ll be two big games in a row – we have the squad, sure, but the mentality could be cause for concern. I’d have said I trust Kear to get that right given his record, but yesterday was an all too familiar hint of our recent past.

Re: York : Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:02 am  

The lack of a natural leader on the field yesterday showed. Its only when George came on and started shouting at them we looked more cohesive. York wanted it more than us, and despite the build up I never felt it was a massive game; we're still in the driving seat, although neither of us can afford to drop points now admittedly.

That initial 20 minutes was keystone cops bad, but we had them on the ropes at the end, and had the game lasted another 5 minutes (5 minutes that the York players wasted though feigning injury and gamesmanship in doing things) we would have beaten them.

I though Chizzy was better when Keys left, but often it takes a big blow for a team to pull together. Having said that the York try from Chizzys kick to Ethan was really bad game management. Why not go for a grubber through and have another 5? Everyone knows Ethans game and plugging it every 5th on the oppositions 20 is getting stale. I hope we can learn from it.

However, if we had won I could see complacency sneaking in the last few games. At least now after this result, it won't happen. I hope.

Re: York : Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:07 pm  

amberavenger wrote:

The slow starts are a concern as has been noticed, but is anyone else also concerned about our lack of “big game mentality”? In recent years we seem to have gone to pot in almost every single game that is labelled of some importance. OK, we beat York at the start of the year when both sides were more ring rusty, but when it’s come down to the business end of the season and promotion is practically on a plate, it’s like the players didn’t seem aware of the stakes until half time. It seems this has been a pattern in a few end of year games. We were chasing the game in huge end of the season clashes against Leigh at home in 2015, (almost a carbon copy of yesterday’s game except with the conversion going the wrong way), the MPG vs Wakefield and the less said about Fev in 2016 the better. And no, I don’t count the Championship Shield
.

Couldn't agree with this more.We really need to develop a backbone to the side, to have some steel for these crunch games. The Halifax games too where we just seem to fall to pieces. It's becoming a worrying habit.

[Bullseye]

Re: York : Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:10 pm  

On the issue of big match temperament the side has changed a fair bit since the Leigh game and the Fev fiasco. However we did look taken by surprise by the way York came out of the traps. Maybe we were a bit complacent. The point about us improving when Flanagan came on is a good point. When he came on we started to take control back around the ruck. He also got under the skin of a few in the York side who were having a big say for them up to that point.

On Keyes and Chisholm playing together I’m not sure it’s the combination that’s the issue. Often the pass from dummy half is so off target it forces them to have to re-adjust which then gives the defence time to get in our faces. It was certainly the case yesterday. If the pass off the ground is poor it often causes the whole move to be poor. York made sure they did all they could to make that happen, it was an area where we were out-thought.

Re: York : Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:06 pm  

The other impact that Keyes coming off caused was it used a substitution up which meant we couldn’t get George on for the last 10 minutes

[Bullseye]

Re: York : Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:14 am  

I wondered why he didn't re-appear, that explains it thanks. It does make me wonder why Bustin came back on when he looked so out of sorts in the heat.

Re: York : Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:43 am  

As Bullseye said the team has changed a lot since the Leigh and Fev fiascos but it doesn't seem to matter, new players, new coach, new division but we still don't turn up when it matters. There is nothing surer now than we can't simply rely on getting results but we also have to play to our potential and run in some points.

[Bulliac]

Re: York : Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:21 am  

Not sure I accept this notion about 'failing' in big games. Big games are games against the 'better sides', you don't need to be Einstein to work out that you are more likely to be troubled by the 'better sides' than by lower placed teams. We beat York on their own midden in the first game of the season and we virtually knocked Donny, who IIRC would have taken over as league leaders if they'd won, out of the title race at their place. Wigan and Saints lose more games against the 'better sides' too..

Re: York : Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:53 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Well that was a disappointing performance and not exactly unexpected. We’ve been slow starters for some weeks and we were made to pay yesterday. That first half “performance” was the reason we lost. I was striking how much more dynamic York looked. They took the ball up quicker, made easy yards and looked really slick and organised. In comparison we rarely got our hands on the ball and when we did we were dominated in the collision and this led to a really slow PTB. We seemed unable to deal with York lying in the ruck, which wasn’t effectively policed. Defensively we were soft. There was some weak contact and we allowed too many offloads. This was across the park with both fringes and the middles guilty. Our line speed was non-existent compared to York who raced up to shut us down very effectively.

Second half we dragged ourselves back into the game gradually. Had Grant not knocked on over the line we might even have won. It was a great effort to get back into it but the better side won. They did everything they needed to do to waste time and slow things down – obviously the plan was to blitz us early and then try and withstand the fightback and it worked.

Things that stood out for me:

Hallas is not a hooker. He’s a decent defender and gives 100% but his service from DH is too slow and inaccurate. He also makes too many iffy decisions whether to run or pass. That might be down to a lack of a call from the 1st receiver sometimes but it happens too often. I prefer Sam in at loose forward where he takes the ball up strongly and has a great engine. We’d have been better going with Halafihi and Flanagan yesterday IMO.

Our halfbacks struggled behind a pack that was second best for the first 40mins. When we did get some ball we didn’t look very convincing. Balls were being caught above heads or players were having to juggle them or check their runs to catch them. The recruitment of Lilley and apparently Liam Finn makes me wonder if Kear thinks we need a change. The contrast with how York moved the ball was stark – abeit they were running against a static defence.

Our game plan needs to take a few more risks as we're too predictable. Some more offloads and getting the ball wider stretched York more in the 2nd half.

Our line speed is non existent. From chatting to a mate at Hunslet this was identified by Gary Thornton and picked up on. We generally move forward a couple of paces then stop to effect the tackle, this allows too many cheap yards in my view and a good side will get on the front foot too easily. Are we not fit enough to defend more aggressively? While we’re organised and nobody rushes out we’re weak on the edges and it showed with tries conceded on both sides yesterday.

This weather doesn’t suit some of our bigger forwards. Callum Bustin really was struggling yesterday even before his knee knock. Liam Kirk has also struggled in the heat. Crossley and Peltier less so. But it means our defence around the ruck can be exploited if the big lads are struggling.

Liam Johnson is a backrow not a centre. The sooner Smith is back the better.

I'd agree with all of this... think everyone is pretty much on the same page in terms of why we lost in the end.

What I would add that I can't see mentioned is that some of our "super fans" (you know the ones that stand near the drum and appeared on Wagga's Game Day a few weeks back) need to take a good hard look at themselves.

York beat us fair and square, and I think would have even with some less controversial decisions from the officials. They wanted it more. Therefore to stand and watch some of the vile abuse York supporters and players got at the end was not pleasant at all.

The group tend to have some good banter with opposition and that's all well and good when we are winning, but they really need to learn to lose with some dignity.

York should have been applauded for making it a good game and the travelling support was better than any other side we've faced... instead sadly they will remember the sour grapes from a minority of vexed up yobs.